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olafberserker

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#30 : December 11, 2008, 03:16:06 PM

if we give it to Caddy on 1st down and the play gets blown up in the back field and he fumbles it away, was that a bad play call at that point ...

So by that logic, the pass on first down was a bad call at that point, right? Because if not, then Caddy fumbling would not be a bad call at that point like you say, but bad execution, like you say..

See the paradox there?


no I fail to see any "paradox"


It was a simple question to the poster that told me execution was a part of the play call ... you guys insist that the right play call would have been to run ... if it got blown up because of poor blocking/missed assignmment and Caddy turned it over, would it have suddenly been a bad play call.

olafberserker

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#31 : December 11, 2008, 03:17:35 PM

Smith was open ... the play worked ... Garcia/Smith didn't get it done


It's Thursday for crying out loud. When are you guys going to get over it and move on?


If the play call worked, we would have had 7


No, if the guys executed we sould have 7 ... the play was there .... he can't throw it and catch it too ... geez you guys are ridiculous ....

Execution risk is part of the playcall


not really ... execution is execution ... maybe you can question player development/coaching or whatever, but that play has been successful plenty of times ... no reason not to assume that the NFL QB can get it to the NFL TE and the NFL TE can catch it ... again this wasn't something crazy being called for two guys off the street ....


if we give it to Caddy on 1st down and the play gets blown up in the back field and he fumbles it away, was that a bad play call at that point ...

Gruden could dial up Grads throwing bombs to Galloway on a fly route all day long, but if Grads continues to miss them because he has no arm, do you blame that all on his execution? 


yeah because that's the same thing as calling a PA on the goal line ...  ::)



olafberserker

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#32 : December 11, 2008, 03:20:02 PM

if we give it to Caddy on 1st down and the play gets blown up in the back field and he fumbles it away, was that a bad play call at that point ...
By the same extension, wouldn't that be bad execution and not a bad play call?


bingo ....
Then why have a coach? If the players fail it's their fault for not executing, anyways.

to coach, make player decisions, in this case to call the plays ... there's bad play calls of course ... but calling a PA on the goal line isn't one of them by a long shot ....

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#33 : December 11, 2008, 03:21:30 PM

It was a simple question to the poster that told me execution was a part of the play call ... you guys insist that the right play call would have been to run ... if it got blown up because of poor blocking/missed assignmment and Caddy turned it over, would it have suddenly been a bad play call.

That means the flubbed pass on first down was also a bad call, for whatever reason it failed..

Feel Real Good

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#34 : December 11, 2008, 03:21:53 PM

It was a simple question to the poster that told me execution was a part of the play call ... you guys insist that the right play call would have been to run ... if it got blown up because of poor blocking/missed assignmment and Caddy turned it over, would it have suddenly been a bad play call.
I think people would just prefer the Bucs live and die with the highest paid center in the league, two "future pro bowl" guards, Jeremy "the next Jon Runyan" Trueblood, a legit pro bowl alternate at fullback, and a top 5 pick running back, than Jeff "Journeyman" Garcia and Alex "new team in 2009" Smith. We're assuming there's a reason the Bucs made acquiring those players a priority.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

olafberserker

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#35 : December 11, 2008, 03:24:18 PM

It was a simple question to the poster that told me execution was a part of the play call ... you guys insist that the right play call would have been to run ... if it got blown up because of poor blocking/missed assignmment and Caddy turned it over, would it have suddenly been a bad play call.

That means the flubbed pass on first down was also a bad call, for whatever reason it failed..


are you slow?  that's your guys stance .. .not mine ....

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#36 : December 11, 2008, 03:25:38 PM

I think people would just prefer the Bucs live and die with the highest paid center in the league, two "future pro bowl" guards, Jeremy "the next Jon Runyan" Trueblood, a legit pro bowl alternate at fullback, and a top 5 pick running back, than Jeff "Journeyman" Garcia and Alex "new team in 2009" Smith. We're assuming there's a reason the Bucs made acquiring those players a priority.

while there is some sarcasm in there, i fully agree.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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#37 : December 11, 2008, 03:27:01 PM

there's bad play calls of course ... but calling a PA on the goal line isn't one of them by a long shot ....

no, but many believe that running the ball is a safer and more effective option when only 2 yards are needed.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

olafberserker

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#38 : December 11, 2008, 03:28:37 PM

It was a simple question to the poster that told me execution was a part of the play call ... you guys insist that the right play call would have been to run ... if it got blown up because of poor blocking/missed assignmment and Caddy turned it over, would it have suddenly been a bad play call.
I think people would just prefer the Bucs live and die with the highest paid center in the league, two "future pro bowl" guards, Jeremy "the next Jon Runyan" Trueblood, a legit pro bowl alternate at fullback, and a top 5 pick running back, than Jeff "Journeyman" Garcia and Alex "new team in 2009" Smith. We're assuming there's a reason the Bucs made acquiring those players a priority.


I think that people prefer that the HC that we traded 4 draft picks and what $8 million for plus pay another 3 million+ adn who has won  Super Bowl plus multiple division titles makes the play calls and not schmucks like you or I on a message board ... I would assume there's a reason the Glazers made the investment in him that they did.



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#39 : December 11, 2008, 03:29:39 PM

It was a simple question to the poster that told me execution was a part of the play call ... you guys insist that the right play call would have been to run ... if it got blown up because of poor blocking/missed assignmment and Caddy turned it over, would it have suddenly been a bad play call.

That means the flubbed pass on first down was also a bad call, for whatever reason it failed..


are you slow? that's your guys stance .. .not mine ....


So your stance is that a run play that doesn't work is a bad call, and a pass play that doesn't is bad execution?

Just trying to clear it up..

olafberserker

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#40 : December 11, 2008, 03:30:43 PM

there's bad play calls of course ... but calling a PA on the goal line isn't one of them by a long shot ....

no, but many believe that running the ball is a safer and more effective option when only 2 yards are needed.

and many believe that a PA is a very effective play call in that situation ...

olafberserker

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#41 : December 11, 2008, 03:31:26 PM

It was a simple question to the poster that told me execution was a part of the play call ... you guys insist that the right play call would have been to run ... if it got blown up because of poor blocking/missed assignmment and Caddy turned it over, would it have suddenly been a bad play call.

That means the flubbed pass on first down was also a bad call, for whatever reason it failed..


are you slow? that's your guys stance .. .not mine ....


So your stance is that a run play that doesn't work is a bad call, and a pass play that doesn't is bad execution?

Just trying to clear it up..


again I ask ... are you slow?  I asked the question ... didn't make the statement

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#42 : December 11, 2008, 03:32:44 PM

I think that people prefer that the HC that we traded 4 draft picks and what $8 million for plus pay another 3 million+ adn who has won �Super Bowl plus multiple division titles makes the play calls and not schmucks like you or I on a message board ... I would assume there's a reason the Glazers made the investment in him that they did.

just because gruden is the coach of the bucs does not mean that he is infallible.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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#43 : December 11, 2008, 03:33:41 PM

It was a simple question to the poster that told me execution was a part of the play call ... you guys insist that the right play call would have been to run ... if it got blown up because of poor blocking/missed assignmment and Caddy turned it over, would it have suddenly been a bad play call.
I think people would just prefer the Bucs live and die with the highest paid center in the league, two "future pro bowl" guards, Jeremy "the next Jon Runyan" Trueblood, a legit pro bowl alternate at fullback, and a top 5 pick running back, than Jeff "Journeyman" Garcia and Alex "new team in 2009" Smith. We're assuming there's a reason the Bucs made acquiring those players a priority.


I think that people prefer that the HC that we traded 4 draft picks and what $8 million for plus pay another 3 million+ adn who has won �Super Bowl plus multiple division titles makes the play calls and not schmucks like you or I on a message board ... I would assume there's a reason the Glazers made the investment in him that they did.
I was under the impression Bruce Allen was trying to build a running team, which is why he passed on quarterbacks like Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell, Brady Quinn, and Trent Edwards to draft running backs and linemen. Apparently him and Gruden aren't on the same page.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

olafberserker

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#44 : December 11, 2008, 03:35:55 PM

It was a simple question to the poster that told me execution was a part of the play call ... you guys insist that the right play call would have been to run ... if it got blown up because of poor blocking/missed assignmment and Caddy turned it over, would it have suddenly been a bad play call.
I think people would just prefer the Bucs live and die with the highest paid center in the league, two "future pro bowl" guards, Jeremy "the next Jon Runyan" Trueblood, a legit pro bowl alternate at fullback, and a top 5 pick running back, than Jeff "Journeyman" Garcia and Alex "new team in 2009" Smith. We're assuming there's a reason the Bucs made acquiring those players a priority.


I think that people prefer that the HC that we traded 4 draft picks and what $8 million for plus pay another 3 million+ adn who has won �Super Bowl plus multiple division titles makes the play calls and not schmucks like you or I on a message board ... I would assume there's a reason the Glazers made the investment in him that they did.
I was under the impression Bruce Allen was trying to build a running team, which is why he passed on quarterbacks like Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell, Brady Quinn, and Trent Edwards to draft running backs and linemen. Apparently him and Gruden aren't on the same page.


yeah because the Packers never call PAs on the goal line  ....


and I'd like a link to where THE reason we passed on all those guys was because we were trying to establish a running team.
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