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: December 13, 2008, 11:54:18 AM

I was motivated to do a little research by this little exchange:
A lot of those sacks have been caused by Garcia when there was a clean pocket.

Garcia has saved a lot more sacks by his scrambling than he has caused.   

This line is underperforming given how much the Bucs have invested in draft picks and salary on that unit.

This is one of those arguments that seems to be rehashed a lot, the Jeffricans claiming it's all the line, and the realists claiming that Jeff is causing the breakdowns in pass pro.

Fortunately, with the miracle of modern technology, we can test this situation!  We have something else to compare to.  Namely, one gawd-awful QB named Brian Griese. 

So is it the line that is screwing up pass pro, or is it the QB?

Garcia = 9 games started 20 sacks = 2.2 sacks/game
Griese = 4 games started 5 sacks = 1.25 sacks/game

Garcia = 309 pass attemprs 20 sacks = 1 sack/15.45 attempts
Griese = 147 attempts 5 sacks = 1 sack/29.4 attempts

You make the call.

DavyJonesLocker

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#1 : December 13, 2008, 11:58:17 AM

Garcia sucks.....that's my call! I can't wait until this chapter is over. I hope Luke comes in Sunday and makes it impossible for Gruden to put Tirdcia back in the lineup on Sunday's.

Badabing

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#2 : December 13, 2008, 12:05:06 PM

Garcia is better than Griese...

even my mentally challenged nephew knows that....



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#3 : December 13, 2008, 12:14:23 PM

Garcia is better than Griese...

even my mentally challenged nephew knows that....

LOL, way to dodge.

Funny how you Jeff huggers just can't admit he could ever do anything wrong. 


He's taking DOUBLE the sacks.  But go ahead and try and change the subject...





DavyJonesLocker

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#4 : December 13, 2008, 12:15:11 PM

Garcia is better than Griese...

even my mentally challenged nephew knows that....
They are better at different things. Garcia is better at not throwing picks. Griese makes our offense better. Both have been successful riding the coattails of a great defense. Garcia=Griese...Griese=Garcia

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#5 : December 13, 2008, 12:15:53 PM

It's kind of hard to compare Griese, who's a statue, and Garcia on sacks. Griese seems to play more to the line's strength while Garcia is a waterbug. Naturally that's going to cause a discrepency in numbers imo. Different styles, different results.



"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject"--Winston Churchill

DavyJonesLocker

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#6 : December 13, 2008, 12:22:43 PM

It's kind of hard to compare Griese, who's a statue, and Garcia on sacks. Griese seems to play more to the line's strength while Garcia is a waterbug. Naturally that's going to cause a discrepency in numbers imo. Different styles, different results.
You must have misunderstood the reason behind the posting of this thread. Some Jeffricans(as the OP so comically put it) blame the Offensive line for Jeff's sacks. If that was the case, then their numbers would be similar, or Griese's even higher considering your analogy(statue) of him.

Blaze688

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#7 : December 13, 2008, 12:22:56 PM

The sacks are Garcia's fault.  No question.

That being said... I'd rather him take a sack than throw an interception for a touchdown.

*glares at Griese*




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#8 : December 13, 2008, 12:25:20 PM

It's kind of hard to compare Griese, who's a statue, and Garcia on sacks. Griese seems to play more to the line's strength while Garcia is a waterbug. Naturally that's going to cause a discrepency in numbers imo. Different styles, different results.
You must have misunderstood the reason behind the posting of this thread. Some Jeffricans(as the OP so comically put it) blame the Offensive line for Jeff's sacks. If that was the case, then their numbers would be similar, or Griese's even higher considering your analogy(statue) of him.

Exactly.

Jeffie's boys are going to talk endlessly about all the other areas where Griese is awful so they can deflect the point of the stats. 

The thread is not about anything other than sacks, and how Jeff's running affects the total.


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#9 : December 13, 2008, 12:37:44 PM

Did you factor in Jeff's rushing numbers as well? 26 carries, 93 yards. They would seem to be relevant. Griese had 5 carries for -1 yard.

Garcia's rushes are broken pass plays. They're sacks that he's avoided and made positive plays from. I don't know if he's had one designed run all year.

In conclusion, 20 sacks for 97 yards and 26 rushes for 93 yards, leaving a net of -4 yards in 9 games. Not awful if you ask me.



"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject"--Winston Churchill

Biggs3535

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#10 : December 13, 2008, 12:40:29 PM

Garcia's rushes are broken pass plays. They're sacks that he's avoided and made positive plays from.

That's not altogether true.

There have been many, many times when Garcia has left a perfectly-formed pocket for no apparent reason.


DavyJonesLocker

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#11 : December 13, 2008, 12:41:05 PM

Did you factor in Jeff's rushing numbers as well? 26 carries, 93 yards. They would seem to be relevant. Griese had 5 carries for -1 yard.

Garcia's rushes are broken pass plays. They're sacks that he's avoided and made positive plays from. I don't know if he's had one designed run all year.

In conclusion, 20 sacks for 97 yards and 26 rushes for 93 yards, leaving a net of -4 yards in 9 games. Not awful if you ask me.
WOW, you really are having a tough time following along. Garcia's sack totals should be even lower than Griese's then if his fancy footwork is allowing him to evade sacks. You are not making your point very well. I hope you are not a defense attorney?

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#12 : December 13, 2008, 12:58:07 PM

Garcia and Griese both suck.  But it's pretty obvious Garcia and his happy feet contribute to some of the sacks.  The OL was in the top 5 in fewest sacks allowed when Griese was QB.  Now they are 17th for the year.  Coincidence?


DavyJonesLocker

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#13 : December 13, 2008, 01:00:31 PM

Garcia and Griese both suck.  But it's pretty obvious Garcia and his happy feet contribute to some of the sacks.  The OL was in the top 5 in fewest sacks allowed when Griese was QB.  Now they are 17th for the year.  Coincidence?
Not a coincidence, and the direct topic of this thread.

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#14 : December 13, 2008, 01:03:13 PM


Davey Jones, I highly doubt Griese makes offense better....Garcia > Griese.

Garcia completion percentage: 66.7
Griese completion percentage: 57.1
Advantage: Jeff Garcia

Garcia yards per start: 237 yards
Griese yards per start: 238 yards(I didn't include Denver game for either QB-thank goodness for Chicago Game or else Griese would have gotten owned)
Advantage: Brian Griese

Garcia yards per attempt: 7.19
Griese yards per attempt: 5.47
Advantage: Jeff Garcia

Garcia TD Percentage: 3.2%
Griese TD Percentage: 2.7%
Advantage: Jeff Garcia

Garcia INT Percentage: 1.0%
Griese INT Percentage: 4.1%
Advantage: Jeff Garcia

Garcia QB rating: 94.4%
Griese QB rating: 64.6%
Advantage: Jeff Garcia

Garcia sacked for every 15 attempts
Griese sacked for every 29 attempts
Advantage: Brian Griese

Garcia Rushing Yards 93
Griese Rushing Yards -1
Advantage: Jeff Garcia

So Griese is better at not taking sacks...but Garcia is more consistant with his yardage per game, throws more TDs, less INTs, completes a higher percentage of his passes, has a much higher QB rating, has scrambling ability to extend drives, and has more yards per attempt.

However, these sacks are just too much to take some times.  I say we give Griese or McCown a shot.
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