You make the call

So is it the line that is screwing up pass pro, or is it the QB?

Garcia = 9 games started 20 sacks = 2.2 sacks/game
Griese = 4 games started 5 sacks = 1.25 sacks/game

Garcia = 309 pass attemprs 20 sacks = 1 sack/15.45 attempts
Griese = 147 attempts 5 sacks = 1 sack/29.4 attempts

You make the call.

I had this discussion with a co-worker a week ago and I brought up the Bears game. I posed the question of how many sacks would Jeff run into if he had to drop back 67 times? I have yet to receive an answer from him.

Doc, I lie.... you lie.... but the #s don't lie. Good work and i love "Jeffricans"   

[Badabing]

So is it the line that is screwing up pass pro, or is it the QB?

Garcia = 9 games started 20 sacks = 2.2 sacks/game
Griese = 4 games started 5 sacks = 1.25 sacks/game

Garcia = 309 pass attemprs 20 sacks = 1 sack/15.45 attempts
Griese = 147 attempts 5 sacks = 1 sack/29.4 attempts

You make the call.

I had this discussion with a co-worker a week ago and I brought up the Bears game. I posed the question of how many sacks would Jeff run into if he had to drop back 67 times? I have yet to receive an answer from him.

Doc, I lie.... you lie.... but the #s don't lie. Good work and i love "Jeffricans"

Hate, if you can tell me you think we'd be at least 9-4 with Brian Griese, then I would like to know why you think so?

Garcia can take us much further than Griese can and is also much better in almost every statistical category.

[Boid Fink]

Griese throws it shorter than Garcia does, and gets rid of it in 2 seconds.  can't hit what isn't there.  Thus his abysmal YPA, YPC...

I love how the OP calls one side a deragatory name, while calling the other side "realists"...

Yeah, no bias in that argument.  LMAO!

Griese sucks.  Garcia is serviceable.

Plain and simple.

[bradentonian]

So is it the line that is screwing up pass pro, or is it the QB?

Garcia = 9 games started 20 sacks = 2.2 sacks/game
Griese = 4 games started 5 sacks = 1.25 sacks/game

Garcia = 309 pass attemprs 20 sacks = 1 sack/15.45 attempts
Griese = 147 attempts 5 sacks = 1 sack/29.4 attempts

You make the call.

I had this discussion with a co-worker a week ago and I brought up the Bears game. I posed the question of how many sacks would Jeff run into if he had to drop back 67 times? I have yet to receive an answer from him.

Doc, I lie.... you lie.... but the #s don't lie. Good work and i love "Jeffricans"

Hate, if you can tell me you think we'd be at least 9-4 with Brian Griese, then I would like to know why you think so?

Garcia can take us much further than Griese can and is also much better in almost every statistical category.

Nobody in this thread is arguing that Griese is better.  Everyone knows Griese is crap.  What is being discussed is that Garcia's happy feet lead him to take more sacks.  That's it.  And the numbers support it.

[Badabing]

So is it the line that is screwing up pass pro, or is it the QB?

Garcia = 9 games started 20 sacks = 2.2 sacks/game
Griese = 4 games started 5 sacks = 1.25 sacks/game

Garcia = 309 pass attemprs 20 sacks = 1 sack/15.45 attempts
Griese = 147 attempts 5 sacks = 1 sack/29.4 attempts

You make the call.

I had this discussion with a co-worker a week ago and I brought up the Bears game. I posed the question of how many sacks would Jeff run into if he had to drop back 67 times? I have yet to receive an answer from him.

Doc, I lie.... you lie.... but the #s don't lie. Good work and i love "Jeffricans"

Hate, if you can tell me you think we'd be at least 9-4 with Brian Griese, then I would like to know why you think so?

Garcia can take us much further than Griese can and is also much better in almost every statistical category.

Nobody in this thread is arguing that Griese is better.  Everyone knows Griese is crap.  What is being discussed is that Garcia's happy feet lead him to take more sacks.  That's it.  And the numbers support it.

nah believe it or not, some "fans" on this board actually are making the arguement that Griese makes the offense better

Hate, if you can tell me you think we'd be at least 9-4 with Brian Griese, then I would like to know why you think so?

3-1 with Griese, 6-3 with Garcia.

Though we have no way of knowing, I think Griese OR Luke would've won that Dallas game.

[Badabing]

Hate, if you can tell me you think we'd be at least 9-4 with Brian Griese, then I would like to know why you think so?

3-1 with Griese, 6-3 with Garcia.

Though we have no way of knowing, I think Griese OR Luke would've won that Dallas game.

yeah in 3 of Griese wins, the D gave up 9 pts to Falcons, 6 pts to Bears(not including pts off of Griese), and 7 to Packers(not including pts off of Griese).  They also scored a TD in both the Bears and Packers game.  I'm pretty sure we would have won those games with Garcia in there and based on his consistant play we would have won those games.

Garcia is better than Griese in every category except sacks and you think we would have won the Dallas game? 

[TheChronicHotAir]

Your numbers are suppose to mean something??

Here's what I've seen this year, and your "numbers" will support it (just not the way YOU want them to)...

Some QBs on the team would rather throw an INT or a PICK 6 than to get sacked.
When you have a REALLY LOW 'yards-per-attempt' (Griese's was a League worst 5.5) that means you're completing REALLY short passes (generally, harder to get sacked).
Our Run Game was a lot stronger when we had Dunn & Graham BOTH healthy (1st 6-7 weeks in season). We're throwing more now and not able to fool people with PlayActionPass.

And really, your stats are "helped" by 2 aberation games-- the silly Bears ending where stupid Griese had to throw 67 times because HE put us in such a hole, and the 5 sack game last Monday (15 was his YEAR's total before that game).

I was motivated to do some anti-Garcia research...

Garcia = 9 games started 20 sacks = 2.2 sacks/game
Griese = 4 games started 5 sacks = 1.25 sacks/game

Garcia = 309 pass attemprs 20 sacks = 1 sack/15.45 attempts
Griese = 147 attempts 5 sacks = 1 sack/29.4 attempts

You make the call.

I made the call. Your stats don't directly say anything about QB ability to "avoid" sacks.

Garcia is better than Griese in every category except sacks and you think we would have won the Dallas game?

While I respect your opinion, if we all agreed, there would be no need for a message board.

[Badabing]

Garcia is better than Griese in every category except sacks and you think we would have won the Dallas game?

While I respect your opinion, if we all agreed, there would be no need for a message board.

I hear ya, I just don't understand why one would think Griese is better?  I lie, you lie, but the stats don't lie.

I could see, if knowing nothing about football, one would think McCown was better...but at least you could hold onto that theory because he hasn't played much and is a question mark.  Could be Dan Marino.  Could be Ryan Leaf.  No one will ever know.

With Griese, we saw how bad he was....and to even remotely think that he gives us a better chance to win than Garcia does...well...idk but I'm glad Gruden woke up and smelled the coffee.  I was worried in the beginning of the year that Gruden had lost his mind, but at least once he saw Griese play, he went back to Garcia.

Garcia is better than Griese in every category except sacks and you think we would have won the Dallas game?

While I respect your opinion, if we all agreed, there would be no need for a message board.

I hear ya, I just don't understand why one would think Griese is better? I lie, you lie, but the stats don't lie.

I could see, if knowing nothing about football, one would think McCown was better...but at least you could hold onto that theory because he hasn't played much and is a question mark. Could be Dan Marino. Could be Ryan Leaf. No one will ever know.

With Griese, we saw how bad he was....and to even remotely think that he gives us a better chance to win than Garcia does...well...idk but I'm glad Gruden woke up and smelled the coffee. I was worried in the beginning of the year that Gruden had lost his mind, but at least once he saw Griese play, he went back to Garcia.

Who said Griese was better? They're both mediocre. And Gruden went back to Jeff because of injury, not choice.

[Boid Fink]

Griese...yeah.  He doesn't take the sack.  He just gives up big field position, and points with his weak armed INTs.

Yeah...I think that would make me a hardcore "Jeffrican".  Sounds like a smarter bunch than "realists" who post drivel like this.  Just saying, once again, that to call one group a name, while considering yourself better because of your subjective thought process is pretty goofy.  And seems to be the norm lately for some of these so called Prophets of Phootball.

[DavyJonesLocker]

Garcia is better than Griese in every category except sacks and you think we would have won the Dallas game?

While I respect your opinion, if we all agreed, there would be no need for a message board.

I hear ya, I just don't understand why one would think Griese is better? I lie, you lie, but the stats don't lie.

I could see, if knowing nothing about football, one would think McCown was better...but at least you could hold onto that theory because he hasn't played much and is a question mark. Could be Dan Marino. Could be Ryan Leaf. No one will ever know.

With Griese, we saw how bad he was....and to even remotely think that he gives us a better chance to win than Garcia does...well...idk but I'm glad Gruden woke up and smelled the coffee. I was worried in the beginning of the year that Gruden had lost his mind, but at least once he saw Griese play, he went back to Garcia.

Who said Griese was better? They're both mediocre. And Gruden went back to Jeff because of injury, not choice.

Yah, you have to wonder if Griese would still be the guy had he not gotten hurt? I think Garcia's career would be over after 2008 had Griese not gotten hurt.

[DavyJonesLocker]

Griese...yeah. �He doesn't take the sack. �He just gives up big field position, and points with his weak armed INTs.

Yeah...I think that would make me a hardcore "Jeffrican". �Sounds like a smarter bunch than "realists" who post drivel like this. �Just saying, once again, that to call one group a name, while considering yourself better because of your subjective thought process is pretty goofy. �And seems to be the norm lately for some of these so called Prohets of Phootball.

Yeah, because 3 and outs don't give up field position right? Nice way to start off that Panthers game Monday night. 

[Biggs3535]

There is some serious denial going on in this thread.