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bradentonian

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#15 : December 15, 2008, 03:36:23 PM

We are the definition of the offense Dungy and Kiffin built their defense around. "Bend don't break, don't give up the big play deep, and sooner or later the offense will make a mistake to hurt themselves, and that's when we capitalize."

How many times back in the late 90's did we hear that from Dungy, Kiffin, Edwards? Who would have known that a half decade later, we would have to toil in misery watching the offense they used to describe their defensive philosophy.


Agree 100%  In order for this offense to work, you need perfect execution on 15 plays in a row.  Ultimately, a mistake is made and the drive ends.  It doesn't make sense.


MBF

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#16 : December 15, 2008, 03:39:15 PM

Step away from the ledge, Chev.

fishman

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#17 : December 15, 2008, 03:56:29 PM

I just cant stand the offense Gru runs anymore. He cant seem to find the QB to play great in it and hes not changing his philosphy for anyone. He calls it way to conservative IMO and its boring and hell cuz of that.
You're so right. I hate watching our offense. It's terrible. Gruden was supposed to be the offensive whiz but I just dont see it turning into anything on the field for us.

I think we owe Gruden the rest of the season. Let's see how it plays out. But I say this, if we can't win a playoff game, it's time to go. That's my position and I'm sticking to it. Now, I just need to get the Glazers to buy in.

"The reality is we came in with a bad salary cap situation and we left with some $50 million under the cap, so it's not like we went out and spent a lot of money on players." JG

jandjen

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#18 : December 15, 2008, 03:59:19 PM

I don't think Gruden needs to go, just change the damn offensive scheme.

Bschucher

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#19 : December 15, 2008, 03:59:25 PM

Rest of the season? I dont think anyone on these forums would ever consider dumping him now anyways. I like the guys fire, i just dont think i enjoy watching his offensive schemes. We are however 9-5 and still in the hunt! Go Bucs

DavyJonesLocker

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#20 : December 15, 2008, 04:07:00 PM

How can you have a QB last the year, when Gruden desires the old retread, beat up, on his way out QB?

We can go on and on about the QB situation, Gruden is doing the best with what he has to work with.


By his choice. He loves garcia and Griese.

Don't cry to your boss when you get fired from your job for being late 3 times week when your car won't run. You chose to buy the $150 beat up old gilopy, instead of spending more to get a reliable used car.

VA_Buc30

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#21 : December 15, 2008, 04:09:20 PM

I, personally, compare Gruden's tenure in Tampa with that of Brian Billick in Baltimore.  Both were given the task to upgrade the offenses of their respective teams.  Billick never gave the Ravens a good offense over his term, but did win a Super Bowl.  

Billick 7 years after the SB victory:

regular season record:  60-52
Division Championships:   2
post-season record:  1-3

Gruden 5 years after SB victory:

regular season record:  45-44
Division Championships:  2
post-season record:   0-2


Eventually the Ravens decided it was time to move on.   I think eventually the Glazers are going to have to decide to also move on, if the current trend of 1 and done in the playoffs continue.  Should it be after this season?   I personally don't think so, but I also think the SB win 6 years ago doesn't give him a pass anymore either.  

bradentonian

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#22 : December 15, 2008, 04:10:47 PM

I, personally, compare Gruden's tenure in Tampa with that of Brian Billick in Baltimore.  Both were given the task to upgrade the offenses of their respective teams.  Billick never gave the Ravens a good offense over his term, but did win a Super Bowl. 

Billick 7 years after the SB victory:

regular season record:  60-52
Division Championships:   2
post-season record:  1-3

Gruden 5 years after SB victory:

regular season record:  45-44
Division Championships:  2
post-season record:   0-2


Eventually the Ravens decided it was time to move on.   I think eventually the Glazers are going to have to decide to also move on, if the current trend of 1 and done in the playoffs continue.  Should it be after this season?   I personally don't think so, but I also think the SB win 6 years ago doesn't give him a pass anymore either. 

Funny, I got blasted for making this same comparison on this board after Billck was canned


Feel Real Good

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#23 : December 15, 2008, 04:14:07 PM

I've made the comparison many times, but the difference is the Ravens quit on Billick. The Bucs, no matter how inept they look, always play hard for Gruden.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

DavyJonesLocker

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#24 : December 15, 2008, 04:15:15 PM


Funny, I got blasted for making this same comparison on this board after Billck was canned
You will always get blasted. You are not allowed to have an opinion against Gruden on this board. If you do, you will be personally attacked, Flamed and bashed by TURBO, Lamond aka Snake Pisskin, Keeponbucn, Boid Fink, Olafberserker, Jersey Bucfan, and apparently now Inland Tiapan. PR Patrol allows them to get away with it.

Madman

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#25 : December 15, 2008, 04:15:19 PM

We have no upside, and that's the killer.  This is who we are.  We play above average, bend but don't break defense and our offense is able to move the ball decently at 4-6 yards a clip.  The problem with that is you will inevitably have a negative play (holding, sack etc.) that scuttles the whole possession.  Gruden can scheme mismatches with his dink and dunk arsenal, but our inability to challenge defenses vertically kills our run game and also makes scoring terribly difficult.  That comes down to not having a QB that can make the throws and not having the skill position players to get separation down the field.  And after 7 years, that's all on the coach, since he picks the players on offense.  His drafting and FA acquit ions have been awful on the offensive side of the ball.  Trueblood is a more unstable version of Jerry Wunsh.  Dexter Jackson, Michael Clayton, Maurice Stovall, Travis Stephens, Marquis Walker, Charlie Garner, Todd Steussie, Derrick Deese, Chros Colmer, Lance Nimmo, Austin King, Sean Mahan, Dan Beunning, Matt Stinchcomb etc.  The D-line is getting swallowed and gashed.  We have so many holes, that it's difficult to know where to go.  But I think we have to address our offensive challenges if we're ever to move forward.  We've never had a QB that can make the throws that Ryan does - deep square ins, 15 yard square outs (nice coverage by Buchanan) etc.  This thing needs to be retooled if we're to even take the next step.  If that means replacing the coach, I'm to the point where I'd accept that.  

Good post.

yuccaneers

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#26 : December 15, 2008, 04:17:32 PM

Eventually what a coaches did in the past is just that, old news. It is all about what have they done lately. Lately is has been more of the same old horrid offensive output.


keeponbucn

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#27 : December 15, 2008, 04:18:57 PM

Keeponbucn,

LOL

There is a level of loathing in which you and others take too far. We all have complaints about the HC but there's a level of straight crazy that you all go to which waters down your POV. You have good points they're just marinated in personal hate. Big difference

VA_Buc30

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#28 : December 15, 2008, 04:19:53 PM

I've made the comparison many times, but the difference is the Ravens quit on Billick. The Bucs, no matter how inept they look, always play hard for Gruden.


I agree the team hasn't quit on Gruden, but if the results continue to be the same (first round playoff loss), there is only so much that can be done to improve the team.  If an offense is not peforming well, the 1 change a coach can make that will have the biggest impact is at QB.  If a team isn't getting past the first round of the playoffs, the 1 change a front office can make that will have the biggest impact is at HC (i.e., Bucs in 2002)  


tajik_buc

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#29 : December 15, 2008, 04:24:52 PM

our offense is able to move the ball decently at 4-6 yards a clip.  The problem with that is you will inevitably have a negative play (holding, sack etc.) that scuttles the whole possession.  

You sir, have pretty much just summed up the Bucs offense for the past 10+ years.   
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