True Character is defined by how you handle adversity.....

[bradentonian]

A QB and a few rushers and we're a very good team.

We already have 2 QBs that Gruden loves.

[cyberdude557]

A QB and a few rushers and we're a very good team.

We already have 2 QBs that Gruden loves.

No he doesn't.

He tolerates Greise. Has shown no love for McCown. And Garcia has been in the dog house since training camp.

Other than Rich Gannon, he has never had a QB that truely fits his system...

[Badabing]

Problems with this team:
1-We don't put realistic investments into QBs of the Future.  Since our SuperBowl, we drafted Simms at the end of the 3rd round, Gradkowski in the 6th, and Josh Johnson in the 5th---all of which will amount or already have amounted to nothing in this league.  We need to spend a 1st or atleast a 2nd to start grooming somebody.  Getting stop gaps like Griese/Garcia are just prolonging the rebuilding of our team.  I like Garcia and hope we resign him since hes a qualtiy QB and better than the likes we will be looking at in free agency, but we need to draft a future QB

2-We are close to becoming the next Detroit Lions when it comes to drafting WRs.  Stop wasting first day picks on WRs---if you want a WR go out and get a TJ Houshmandzadeh or somebody like Antonio Bryant in free agency.  Stovall, Clayton, and Jackson are garbage.

3- We have no pass rush.  hmm..what a coincidence, the two man problems we all knew after the giants game were lack of pass rush and lack of playmaking WR.  So we still only have 1 playmaking WR---as Bryant compares to Galloway last year---and still have no pass rush.  Correct that all mighty Bruce Allen.

4-We don't have an offensive coordinator.  Bill Muir?  Come on.  I dont mind that Gruden calls the play, but I think he needs to take a step back and say, I'm still going to call the plays, but im going to bring somebody in I can coordinate with and maybe help me out if I see nothing good is happening with my play calling.

5-Our Rush game is terrible.  what the heck offensive line?

[ufojoe]

-Rice was finished. After we cut him he went to 3 other teams and all 3 cut him.
-Keyshawn has gotten into battles with every coach he's ever had.
-Sapp is interesting. I dont know the whole deal with him but he has no love for Monte Kiffin. They were talking with him on Inside the NFL and he didnt have all that many nice things to say about Kiffin. He claimed he liked Marinelli more. So Im not quite sure his problem was with Gruden.
-McCardell was a money thing and had nothing to do with Gruden.

We made a mistake releasing Lynch, I'll give you that one...

And Keenan praised Gruden when he came back to Tampa for his first game after leaving the Bucs.

OK, BG, what big name FA did we go after but lose out on because they didn't want to play for Gruden?

And BTW BG, you can listen to WDAE anywhere in the world, online. But you knew that.

[bradentonian]

A QB and a few rushers and we're a very good team.

We already have 2 QBs that Gruden loves.

No he doesn't.

He tolerates Greise. Has shown no love for McCown. And Garcia has been in the dog house since training camp.

Other than Rich Gannon, he has never had a QB that truely fits his system...

He has wanted Garcia for years.  Over and over we heard about how Garcia was exactly the QB that this system was designed for.  As for Griese, Gruden has repeatedly stated his admiration for him.

[wolfet]

haha wait your questioning our character.?...

I can't imagine the character of our team who has lost 3 straight and 2 of them being must wins...

got to love the character of our team..


also we started 9-3....for us to not make the playoffs means that somebody must be held responsible for this titantic meltdown.  Has that every happened before?

I know San Diego started out 8-4 in 2002 and ended up 8-8 out of the playoffs.  The Jets started 9-4 in 2000 and lost 3 straight to miss playoffs.

Can anyone research the last 9-3 start though to miss out on playoffs....

More the talent on the team than anyone's character.  Those folks who say "I'm done", or "fire Gruden" after watching marginal talent get whipped don't remember the Williams days or the Perkins days or the Wyche days very well.  Overall, be careful what you ask for.   Grunden will be back and hopefully with a more talented team.  This team did not underachieve unlike the final couple of the Dungy era (he is a great coach).  Simply put, we do not have the talent on both sides of the ball.  The good news is we have a good young nucleus and with a good draft and a few stud free agents we should be in a better position talent wise.

[cyberdude557]

Those folks who say "I'm done", or "fire Gruden" after watching marginal talent get whipped don't remember the Williams days or the Perkins days or the Wyche days very well.

Im willing to bet many of those folks probably were not Bucs fans prior to 1997. So I dont think we can really blame them for not knowing what the Perkins or Wyche days were like.

[DavyJonesLocker]

Those folks who say "I'm done", or "fire Gruden" after watching marginal talent get whipped don't remember the Williams days or the Perkins days or the Wyche days very well.

Im willing to bet many of those folks probably were not Bucs fans prior to 1997. So I dont think we can really blame them for not knowing what the Perkins or Wyche days were like.

Yeah, because the oil lamp was so much better than the candle, we should never have invented the lightbulb. I have been a fan since I was a kid. long before 1997. Does that mean I should be happy with everything better than 0-26?

[wolfet]

Problems with this team:
1-We don't put realistic investments into QBs of the Future.  Since our SuperBowl, we drafted Simms at the end of the 3rd round, Gradkowski in the 6th, and Josh Johnson in the 5th---all of which will amount or already have amounted to nothing in this league.  We need to spend a 1st or atleast a 2nd to start grooming somebody.  Getting stop gaps like Griese/Garcia are just prolonging the rebuilding of our team.  I like Garcia and hope we resign him since hes a qualtiy QB and better than the likes we will be looking at in free agency, but we need to draft a future QB

2-We are close to becoming the next Detroit Lions when it comes to drafting WRs.  Stop wasting first day picks on WRs---if you want a WR go out and get a TJ Houshmandzadeh or somebody like Antonio Bryant in free agency.  Stovall, Clayton, and Jackson are garbage.

3- We have no pass rush.  hmm..what a coincidence, the two man problems we all knew after the giants game were lack of pass rush and lack of playmaking WR.  So we still only have 1 playmaking WR---as Bryant compares to Galloway last year---and still have no pass rush.  Correct that all mighty Bruce Allen.

4-We don't have an offensive coordinator.  Bill Muir?  Come on.  I dont mind that Gruden calls the play, but I think he needs to take a step back and say, I'm still going to call the plays, but im going to bring somebody in I can coordinate with and maybe help me out if I see nothing good is happening with my play calling.

5-Our Rush game is terrible.  what the heck offensive line?

1- Completely agree with you.  Either invest a draft pick in the next supposed franchise QB or sign Cassell, but we have not ever had a guy like Rivers, Brady, Manning, Rothlesberger, McNabb (yes even him), Favre, Breese, Ryan, Eli Manning, Cutler, etc.  Either take your shot at the best free agent QB or draft on high, but quit looking for your next free agent off the scrap heap to become your next Rich Gannon.

2- Actually, half way agree.   First, we are not close to becoming Detroit, but you are right that the line is very fine between a 10-6 record and a 6-10 record.  Especially, given our current talent on the roster at some of the most important positions.  QB, DT, OLB, and WR are weak, probably in that order.  However, WR's are one of the biggest hit or misses in the first day.  I like Bryant and Clayton is OK, would like us to see us sign a Devry Henderson in the slot, but agree that there are Gems in the later rounds

3- Somewhat agree.  We have decent edge rushers, but no inside push other than Wilkerson when he is really playing out of position.  The thing that made SRice so good was the QB could not step-up in the pocket because of the inside push.  We need a pass rushing DT that at least can push the QB back in the pocket and pressure.

4- I agree that someone is not charting plays.  How many times did the Bucs run on 1st down and then pass on second down.  Nothing is really suprising and I get the run/pass guess right about 95% of the time.  Sometimes it does not feel that we know if we want the run to set up the pass or vice versa.
Ne
5- Agree on the offensive side of the ball.  What is intersting to me, if you talk about coaching trees, how many coaches has Gruden developed on the offesnive side of the ball to become next-step O-Coordinators or head coaches.  I can not think of any except the guy who flamed out at Oakland and Nebraska.  He seems to like stability, but a bit of challenge would not hurt him.

Ultimately, I think Gruden is a good coach and gets it.  His love and passion for winning overides all, so I think he will be very introspective on these topics, or at least I hope so.

[wolfet]

Those folks who say "I'm done", or "fire Gruden" after watching marginal talent get whipped don't remember the Williams days or the Perkins days or the Wyche days very well.

Im willing to bet many of those folks probably were not Bucs fans prior to 1997. So I dont think we can really blame them for not knowing what the Perkins or Wyche days were like.

Yeah, because the oil lamp was so much better than the candle, we should never have invented the lightbulb. I have been a fan since I was a kid. long before 1997. Does that mean I should be happy with everything better than 0-26?

No, any Bucs fans would not be happy with a loss or missing the playoffs.  Like most, I would have liked to see Mccown in Atlanta, but at least understood his rationale.  However, people that say I am done when we still have a chance, or fire Gruden when the team is not really that talented have not probably been Bucs fans very long and understand the flip side. 

Look at how many fans went from mourning the Kiffin loss to bashing him on these same boards.  Kiffin can still coach, the players however do not have the talent to beat some of these teams.

[wolfet]

Those folks who say "I'm done", or "fire Gruden" after watching marginal talent get whipped don't remember the Williams days or the Perkins days or the Wyche days very well.

Agree, was it Richard Williamson or Williams that was before or followed Ray Perkins and I think I forgot Leeman Bennett.
Im willing to bet many of those folks probably were not Bucs fans prior to 1997. So I dont think we can really blame them for not knowing what the Perkins or Wyche days were like.

[MiltonMack21]

...and plenty of folks on this board have shown they are spoiled by the winning and their true colors.  I was around for I think 14 consequtive losing seasons and will be here next year.  If you want to pack it in then go away.  As for the coach he can come back.  NEW FLASH...HE HAS MEDIOCRE TALENT ON THIS TEAM RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!  We do not have any pro bowl'ers last year and two this year because we have a very talented team.  I am not saying their is not hope in this young nucleus, but remember 9-7 won the division last year.  Bruce needs to spend some of that cap room next year at skill positions and couple it with a great draft.  Apparently, many of the folks on here listen and act like the Dummeg.  If you told me 6 weeks ago that we would score 24 against San Diego and 23 (I think) against Carolina, I would have told we will win both games.   The players have to take accountability.  Gruden is a good coach and Kiffin an outsanding DC.  Think about this.  Hovan has one sack, Haye I believe has no sacks still, GA needs to use an inside move. Brooks is having a good year, but not even close to the player he once was, Cato June? (Remember him, he still plays for us).  Ruud, Adams, White, Wilkerson are the only four playmakers on the front seven.  Jackson, Barber ( a bit heckel and jeckel), Sabby, Talib are all good players for us.  Our defense needs a make over at DT and OLB, as do our QB and WR positions save Bryant.

If the Titans are stupid enough to let Hanesworth hit the market, go get him and couple him with a 1st day DT draft pick.  Add some FA OLB's to compet with Black and FSU draft pick this year (name escapes me).  Go get Matt Cassell and retain Luke Mccown,  find a franchise QB, it has to be a mission.  For next year.

There are plenty of more talented teams than the Bucs with worse records.  Everyone should be asking themselves, would it be worse without him.  Not saying he is the second coming of Vince Lomardi, but he is a good coach.

I just wanted you to realize.. we are headed down that path... many losing seasons in a row. Simply because the Panthers and the Falcons have gotten better while we have gotten worse. The light you see at the end of the tunnel is a train coming right at you.