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DBrooksIsMyDaddy

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#30 : December 30, 2008, 05:20:28 AM

Israelis Get Truth About Gaza Attack
by Ira Chernus

If you get your news from the American mass media, you know that there's a nice simple explanation for the massive Israeli attack on Gaza. That explanation comes straight from the Israeli government, via the White House: Hamas, the group that controls Gaza, is responsible for all the violence. "These people are nothing but thugs," a White House spokesman said. "Israel is going to defend its people against terrorists like Hamas." End of story. As usual, Israel is depicted as the innocent victim of an evil it did nothing to provoke.

But if you read Israel's most respected newspaper, Ha'aretz, you find out that things are rather more complicated. (All the quotes below come from Jewish journalists writing in recent editions of Ha'aretz.)

You know the reality of Gaza today: "The tremendous population density in the Gaza Strip does not allow a 'surgical operation' over an extended period that would minimize damage to civilian populations." "There are many corpses and wounded, every moment another casualty is added to the list of the dead, and there is no more room in the morgue. . A mother whose three school-age children were killed, and are piled one on top of top of the other in the morgue, screams and then cries, screams again and then is silent."

And you know that some Israelis are outraged: "Israel's violent responses, even if there is justification for them, exceed all proportion and cross every red line of humaneness, morality, international law and wisdom."

Read more quotes from Ha'aretz...

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/12/29-0


Joe, If say, a group in Mexico was lobbing hundreds of bombs into Texas despite a cease-fire, and after repeated warnings they didn't stop, what would we do?  Lob only the same amount and type of bombs there so it would be parity in war?  If a group is attacking you and is backed by a strong government (Iran) that is developing nuclear weapons and its leader has come out publicly and bragged that he wanted to wipe your country and all its people off the face of the earth, what do you do?  You bomb the crap out of them.  Of course you're sorry about collateral damage, but this is war, this is to save your country and your people.  Israel is not overreacting, imo.

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#31 : December 30, 2008, 01:46:43 PM

Aren't economic sanctions the alternative measure that SHOULD have been taken instead of going to war in Iraq? So now that is off the table as well? So what is acceptable?

Economic sanctions WERE used in Iraq starting in 1992 and the result was the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children. What a success! I'm not going to go into Iraq again since we've already done that many times on this board. But anybody who is honest with themselves knows that in 2003, the weapons inspections were working and Saddam wasn't going to be a threat any time soon.

The Palestinians were punished (by economic sanctions)  for electing Hamas to power and are now being punished for the ineffective missiles that have been lobbed at Israel. Why now? If you read the Ha'aretz article from above, you'll see that Israel may be doing all of this at this point in time in order to posture for the upcoming elections. And once again, those are Israel journalists suggesting that. I have yet to see you offer a reason why these Israeli journalists would be saying these things against their own government. Maybe they're be right?
I know many would love to use the "biased" label on them but in this case,  they  can't.

How anybody can support this disproportionate response on the Palestinians by the Israelis is beyond me.


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#32 : December 30, 2008, 08:33:43 AM

I'm curious how many Israeli's have to die before Israel is 'allowed' to do something about it?

If your neighbor is lobbing grenades over the fence would you wait for one of your kids to die before sorting him out or would you try and do so before one of them did?

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#33 : December 30, 2008, 08:49:30 AM

It is about to hit the fan.

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#34 : December 30, 2008, 09:40:27 AM

I'm curious how many Israeli's have to die before Israel is 'allowed' to do something about it?

If your neighbor is lobbing grenades over the fence would you wait for one of your kids to die before sorting him out or would you try and do so before one of them did?

Maybe an intelligent person would find out why his neighbor was so disgruntled.  If action is a required the rational response would be to identify WHO is throwing the grenades before bombing the adjoining houses killing innocent bystanders.

This current campagin is a huge boost to Islamnic terrorists.  Another public relations success that will increases recruitement and donations for another few years.  Well done, great job.



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#35 : December 30, 2008, 10:03:20 AM

Only people in America think fighting back and actually protecting yourself worsens your postion. Not many people believe this but the ones that do you'll find concentrated in this country because Americans have never lived through anything like that ever. Worrying about death every day, every step, friends, family, ...Let Israel handle theirs and we mind our own - thats what I say.

With all due respect Israel isn't the only country in the world to experience terrorism.  In fact most of Europe/Asia could strike back in retaliation for terror activities, but they are responsible countries instead cooperating to fight terrorism.

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#36 : December 30, 2008, 10:21:20 AM

I'm curious how many Israeli's have to die before Israel is 'allowed' to do something about it?

If your neighbor is lobbing grenades over the fence would you wait for one of your kids to die before sorting him out or would you try and do so before one of them did?

Maybe an intelligent person would find out why his neighbor was so disgruntled.  If action is a required the rational response would be to identify WHO is throwing the grenades before bombing the adjoining houses killing innocent bystanders.

This current campagin is a huge boost to Islamnic terrorists.  Another public relations success that will increases recruitement and donations for another few years.  Well done, great job.


I think it is pretty clear why the are disgruntled. The mere existance of Israel for starters?

Hamas has shown absolutely no inclination towards a settlement that involves anything other than the total elimination of that country. So what do you do? If Israel does nothing, they become emboldened and Hamas sees them as weak. If they act it 'increases' the propensity of more terrorist acts. Talk about a rock and a hard place.

Although I do agree a lot of what you say is factually correct to a degree, Israel has demonstrated that they are more than willing to compromise, Hamas has not. At what point does one turn the finger of blame towards Hamas? The reality of this is Hamas thrives and prospers in an environment of violence, death and confrontation, they have no incentive to do anything but what they are doing now.

Did you know there is a law in Israel that forbids the desecration of any religious building and mandates that they be maintained? That includes Mosques if they are used or not? What did Hamas do the day Israel pulled out of Gaza? They totally desecrated and destroyed the largest Synagogue. I think that ought to provide an inkling with the mindset Israel is dealing with.

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#37 : December 30, 2008, 10:29:48 AM

Hamas was losing power as the people were turning on them.  Now?  They are heroes in their eyes once again which blinds them from the issues Hamas was having as an elected democratic body.


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#38 : December 30, 2008, 11:04:04 AM

All_da_way:  If that is true then why is Abbas blaming Hamas for this whole mess?

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#39 : December 30, 2008, 11:18:33 AM


You folk s really need to go back and read the Ha'aretz quotes. That's an Israeli newspaper and those are all quotes from Israeli journalists. Not one of you have mentioned the reason why missiles are being lobbed into Israel. Go read it again and tell me Israel has done nothing to provoke Hamas and the Palestinian people. Or, you can read this, which covers a lot of recent history and mentions the severe economic sanctions used against the Palestinian people.

Have those sanctions worked? Or have they angered the Palestinians?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/30/israelandthepalestinians-middleeast


Admirebucs

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#40 : December 30, 2008, 11:54:02 AM

If I was palastinian, I would be pissed too. They lost their country, was forced away from their homes where they have lives for hundreds of years and then weren't allowed to return again. There are still thousands of refugees to this day living in refugee camps in other arab countys....

At the same time, they are making the living conditions of these extremely poor people even worse with constant harassment. 51% of the people in gaza are living below the poverty rate.

The US needs to force Israel to stop these crimes to humanity

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#41 : December 30, 2008, 12:03:45 PM

All_da_way:  If that is true then why is Abbas blaming Hamas for this whole mess?

Because Abbas has an axe to grind with Hamas.


ufojoe

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#42 : December 30, 2008, 12:52:18 PM


This is written by a Palestinian journalists in Gaza. Israel is not letting any international journalists in to see for themselves what has happened in Gaza. I'm not surprised.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7804875.stm

"I was sleeping with my sisters and suddenly I woke up," Reem Baloosha, 13, told me, describing the night two days ago when her five sisters were killed in an Israeli air strike.

"I found myself under the rubble, the stones were crushing me. I looked around, my sister was under the rubble, she was dead."

I visited the family in Jabaliya refugee camp in the north of the Gaza Strip.

The whole house is a pile of rubble. There is nothing but dust and stones, with a few girls' clothes and school books.

The parents do not even have photos of their dead daughters, all their pictures were lost under the rubble.

Their father, Anwar, was sitting in a mourning tent. Their mother is in total shock. She is barely conscious. They seem to be too shocked even to cry.

"If they were making rockets, I wouldn't be sad like this, but they were waiting for electricity, to study for their exams. I have eight daughters, five of them have been killed," Mr Baloosha told me.


Israel is not currently permitting international journalists to cross into Gaza.


Balls Out

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#43 : December 30, 2008, 01:03:26 PM

The US needs to force Israel to stop these crimes to humanity

Since when does the child give the parent orders?

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alldaway

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#44 : December 30, 2008, 01:08:02 PM

The United States does have the power to stop Israel, but refuses to do so as they are the bad cop in this region of the world carrying out what the United States isn't willing to do from a PR perspective (Israel is taking a big hit in this area).



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