Jon Gruden Needs To Go!!!

[bradentonian]

Also, Garner and Steussie both got approximately $4 million signing bonuses, which was not chump change in 2004. Deese got $2.5 million. By contrast Thomas Jones got $3.5 million up front from the Bears.

Not chump change but also not what some of the big name guys were getting. �

We couldn't sign guys for free (obviously we had to give them money), but we couldn't go after anyone huge. �We basically had to wait until everything was picked through and then be creative signing who we could. �

Only because we tried to sign so many guys in one offseason. �Instead of adding one or two higher-quality guys, GrAllen tried to replace the entire OL in one swoop, with ugly results.

When you have so much invested in defense and so many holes on offense, well you don't have much choice.

Sure you do. �We got rid of our current starters to make room for all those busts. �We traded Oben for a 5th rounder. �Instead we could have picked up one or two guys to build around long term.

When you have only peanuts to spend you can't expect more than peanuts. 

We were hamstrung by the cap and by having so much invested in our defense at the time.

But whatever, we'll just have to agree to disagree. 

Again, instead of buying 5 $1 guys that had minimal chance for success, we could have added 1 $5 guy to the $1 guys we already had.  Either way you're spending $5.

[LFO]

Also, Garner and Steussie both got approximately $4 million signing bonuses, which was not chump change in 2004. Deese got $2.5 million. By contrast Thomas Jones got $3.5 million up front from the Bears.

Not chump change but also not what some of the big name guys were getting. �

We couldn't sign guys for free (obviously we had to give them money), but we couldn't go after anyone huge. �We basically had to wait until everything was picked through and then be creative signing who we could. �

Only because we tried to sign so many guys in one offseason. �Instead of adding one or two higher-quality guys, GrAllen tried to replace the entire OL in one swoop, with ugly results.

When you have so much invested in defense and so many holes on offense, well you don't have much choice.

Sure you do. �We got rid of our current starters to make room for all those busts. �We traded Oben for a 5th rounder. �Instead we could have picked up one or two guys to build around long term.

When you have only peanuts to spend you can't expect more than peanuts. 

We were hamstrung by the cap and by having so much invested in our defense at the time.

But whatever, we'll just have to agree to disagree. 

Again, instead of buying 5 $1 guys that had minimal chance for success, we could have added 1 $5 guy to the $1 guys we already had.  Either way you're spending $5.

LOL

If only it were that simple, especially if you have several holes to fill.

We might fill one of those 5 with a $5 player, but then we still have 4 holes and probably get nowhere.  Or, we can sign 5 guys and hope more than 1 pans out, and then we have a greater chance of success.

Regardless, we were behind the 8-ball due to the Cap and disproportionate amount of money spent. 

[bradentonian]

Also, Garner and Steussie both got approximately $4 million signing bonuses, which was not chump change in 2004. Deese got $2.5 million. By contrast Thomas Jones got $3.5 million up front from the Bears.

Not chump change but also not what some of the big name guys were getting. �

We couldn't sign guys for free (obviously we had to give them money), but we couldn't go after anyone huge. �We basically had to wait until everything was picked through and then be creative signing who we could. �

Only because we tried to sign so many guys in one offseason. �Instead of adding one or two higher-quality guys, GrAllen tried to replace the entire OL in one swoop, with ugly results.

When you have so much invested in defense and so many holes on offense, well you don't have much choice.

Sure you do. �We got rid of our current starters to make room for all those busts. �We traded Oben for a 5th rounder. �Instead we could have picked up one or two guys to build around long term.

When you have only peanuts to spend you can't expect more than peanuts.�

We were hamstrung by the cap and by having so much invested in our defense at the time.

But whatever, we'll just have to agree to disagree.�

Again, instead of buying 5 $1 guys that had minimal chance for success, we could have added 1 $5 guy to the $1 guys we already had.  Either way you're spending $5.

LOL

If only it were that simple, especially if you have several holes to fill.

We might fill one of those 5 with a $5 player, but then we still have 4 holes and probably get nowhere.  Or, we can sign 5 guys and hope more than 1 pans out, and then we have a greater chance of success.

Regardless, we were behind the 8-ball due to the Cap and disproportionate amount of money spent. 

We had enough room to sign Garner for $20M, Stinkbomb for $5M, Deese for $15M, Steussie for $20M, Mario Edwards for $18M plus Ian Gold and Griese all in one offseason.

For reference, that same offseason the Bears signed RB Thomas Jones signed for $10M and OT "Big John" Tait for $34M.

And the Bears have done what??

[Feel Real Good]

If you look in our division, Matt Ryan was a home run, Roddy White was a home run, Steve Smith was a home run, Julius Peppers was a home run, and Kris Jenkins was a home run.

DeAngelo Williams is at least a triple, Jon Beason is at least a triple, Jeff Otah is at least a triple, Jordan Gross is at least a triple, Jamaal Brown is at least a triple, Will Smith is at least a triple, Charles Grant is at least a triple, Marques Colston is at least a triple, and Jahri Evans is at least a triple.

Think how many of these players took over games against the Bucs and won them for their teams.

Ruud and Jackson are doubles. The Bucs haven't drafted a home run since Ronde in 1997.

Yet they all also had busts.

But whatever. 

You can only play 11 players at one time. Of course they're not going to all work out. What matters in this league is difference makers. The Bucs have none.

[LFO]

Also, Garner and Steussie both got approximately $4 million signing bonuses, which was not chump change in 2004. Deese got $2.5 million. By contrast Thomas Jones got $3.5 million up front from the Bears.

Not chump change but also not what some of the big name guys were getting. �

We couldn't sign guys for free (obviously we had to give them money), but we couldn't go after anyone huge. �We basically had to wait until everything was picked through and then be creative signing who we could. �

Only because we tried to sign so many guys in one offseason. �Instead of adding one or two higher-quality guys, GrAllen tried to replace the entire OL in one swoop, with ugly results.

When you have so much invested in defense and so many holes on offense, well you don't have much choice.

Sure you do. �We got rid of our current starters to make room for all those busts. �We traded Oben for a 5th rounder. �Instead we could have picked up one or two guys to build around long term.

When you have only peanuts to spend you can't expect more than peanuts.�

We were hamstrung by the cap and by having so much invested in our defense at the time.

But whatever, we'll just have to agree to disagree.�

Again, instead of buying 5 $1 guys that had minimal chance for success, we could have added 1 $5 guy to the $1 guys we already had.  Either way you're spending $5.

LOL

If only it were that simple, especially if you have several holes to fill.

We might fill one of those 5 with a $5 player, but then we still have 4 holes and probably get nowhere.  Or, we can sign 5 guys and hope more than 1 pans out, and then we have a greater chance of success.

Regardless, we were behind the 8-ball due to the Cap and disproportionate amount of money spent. 

We had enough room to sign Garner for $20M, Stinkbomb for $5M, Deese for $15M, Steussie for $20M, Mario Edwards for $18M plus Ian Gold and Griese all in one offseason.

For reference, that same offseason the Bears signed RB Thomas Jones signed for $10M and OT "Big John" Tait for $34M.

We ALL know that the # on a contract does not tell the whole story.  Often contracts are back loaded and look "inflated."  Most of these guys essentially signed 1 year deals and were cut. 

I hope you are smarter than that, because you are just talking out your back side now. 

[Feel Real Good]

I posted the bonus numbers. Garner, Steussie, and Deese combined to get over $10 million in bonus money up front.

[acacius]

Will Smith is at least a triple, Charles Grant is at least a triple

I'm not arguing against your overall point, but you're vastly overrating the Saints DEs, imo.

[Feel Real Good]

Will Smith is at least a triple, Charles Grant is at least a triple

I'm not arguing against your overall point, but you're vastly overrating the Saints DEs, imo.

Grant has slid pretty badly after his third season so I'm willing to downgrade him to a double. Smith wasn't so great this season, but prior to that he had 4 seasons with between 7.0-10.5 sacks. I think he's still a triple.

[ryan24]

Seems like the Saints are getting some pretty glowing review for their draft picks on the defensive side of the ball considering their defensive performance.

[Feel Real Good]

Seems like the Saints are getting some pretty glowing review for their draft picks on the defensive side of the ball considering their defensive performance.

Well their secondary sucks and Payton sucks as a head coach. If Adams was posting 10.0 sacks in his second year and 10.5 in his third year like Grant this board would be fitting him for Canton.