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jerseybucsfan

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#15 : December 28, 2008, 08:38:56 PM

This isn't good. Two of the best posters on this board going at it.
C'mon guys. We're all upset right now.

In Verner We Trust

ONEBIGDADDY

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#16 : December 28, 2008, 08:40:02 PM

LoL please tell me you are totally going to blame the HC for all the mess up and all the injuries...Your like the guy in stands today that blame the "Offensive Guru" and then said to let him go....I stated after the comment that I really didn't see Gruden on any of the plays...Playing on the field...I stated that all plays are supposed to work and he stated "yes for positive yards". I then thought about him being a Coach for a High School team that was in our section...I wanted to so ask him do you ever blame the players but he got up and left...Go Figure...Just when I was warming up...OBD

Well, hey, its great that the head coach doesn't decide who makes the football team, depth at various positions, and how to use the weapons he has...

Oh wait...he does...
Not on defense Jason...Let it sink in...OBD


Lord Jenkins

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#17 : December 28, 2008, 08:41:02 PM

How many redundant threads are you going to make?

I've made two threads on two different subjects...

re⋅dun⋅dant   /rɪˈdʌndənt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation �[ri-duhn-duhnt] Show IPA Pronunciation �

�adjective 1. characterized by verbosity or unnecessary repetition in expressing ideas

So you needed to use a dictionary on middle school vocabulary word, how cute...

And don't sweat it, I'm just asking you before you get carried away...

Actually, I posted it for you since you appear to lack understanding of the word.

 I guarantee you'll think twice before making another meaningless thread now that you looked that word up.

Try looking up the word think too, while you're defining meaningless.

Sig change requested by \"threadkiller\". I delivered with the most disturbing thing I came across on the college boards x)


JasonOfthetower

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#18 : December 28, 2008, 08:44:36 PM

LoL please tell me you are totally going to blame the HC for all the mess up and all the injuries...Your like the guy in stands today that blame the "Offensive Guru" and then said to let him go....I stated after the comment that I really didn't see Gruden on any of the plays...Playing on the field...I stated that all plays are supposed to work and he stated "yes for positive yards". I then thought about him being a Coach for a High School team that was in our section...I wanted to so ask him do you ever blame the players but he got up and left...Go Figure...Just when I was warming up...OBD

Well, hey, its great that the head coach doesn't decide who makes the football team, depth at various positions, and how to use the weapons he has...

Oh wait...he does...
Not on defense Jason...Let it sink in...OBD

If the Head Coach doesn't decide the personnel on the defense than he shouldn't be the Head Coach. OBD, no one absolves Monte...but Gruden is the head coach of this football team. If Monte was sandbagging it the last few weeks, then he needed to put Monte to the side and have Raheem take over the defense...I don't know if that happened - if it did than we need to be afraid, very afraid....

Bottom line is losses fall on the Head Coach...we can't fire Monte, he's already gone - if you think that's going to fix what has happened here then I guess we're all set...personally, I don't feel its enough.


missy427

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#19 : December 28, 2008, 08:44:41 PM

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and ask : when will we see the blame the players threads?

The players work for the coach.  The coach can use methods to put a winning team on the field.  If the coach cannot do that, ya need another coach that can.
[/quote) Or maybe better players?

JasonOfthetower

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#20 : December 28, 2008, 08:46:09 PM

How many redundant threads are you going to make?

I've made two threads on two different subjects...

re⋅dun⋅dant   /rɪˈdʌndənt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation �[ri-duhn-duhnt] Show IPA Pronunciation �

�adjective 1. characterized by verbosity or unnecessary repetition in expressing ideas

So you needed to use a dictionary on middle school vocabulary word, how cute...

And don't sweat it, I'm just asking you before you get carried away...

Actually, I posted it for you since you appear to lack understanding of the word.

 I guarantee you'll think twice before making another meaningless thread now that you looked that word up.

Try looking up the word think too, while you're defining meaningless.

Yeah, okay. This banter is going nowhere, let's just end it because there's no point in continuing. If you think its pointless, don't read it.


Pewter Pirate

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#21 : December 28, 2008, 08:47:06 PM

Gruden is a very good offensive coordinator, but is not the best good head coach.  A head coach determines who plays the positions.  Gruden is not the best talent evaluator (i.e. being drunk on SOB Kool Aid, not playing Graham for all of those years, etc...)  

ONEBIGDADDY

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#22 : December 28, 2008, 08:48:53 PM

Gruden is a very good offensive coordinator, but is not the best good head coach.  A head coach determines who plays the positions.  Gruden is not the best talent evaluator (i.e. being drunk on SOB Kool Aid, not playing Graham for all of those years, etc...)  

Allen also holds some responsibility to this. I don't cut him any slack. We will see when it comes time for FA. This FA will be the tell tale sign...OBD


missy427

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#23 : December 28, 2008, 08:50:57 PM

This looks like one very interesting off season and I'm sure Scott and the crew will have their hands full covering it!

ONEBIGDADDY

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#24 : December 28, 2008, 08:52:01 PM

LoL please tell me you are totally going to blame the HC for all the mess up and all the injuries...Your like the guy in stands today that blame the "Offensive Guru" and then said to let him go....I stated after the comment that I really didn't see Gruden on any of the plays...Playing on the field...I stated that all plays are supposed to work and he stated "yes for positive yards". I then thought about him being a Coach for a High School team that was in our section...I wanted to so ask him do you ever blame the players but he got up and left...Go Figure...Just when I was warming up...OBD

Well, hey, its great that the head coach doesn't decide who makes the football team, depth at various positions, and how to use the weapons he has...

Oh wait...he does...
Not on defense Jason...Let it sink in...OBD

If the Head Coach doesn't decide the personnel on the defense than he shouldn't be the Head Coach. OBD, no one absolves Monte...but Gruden is the head coach of this football team. If Monte was sandbagging it the last few weeks, then he needed to put Monte to the side and have Raheem take over the defense...I don't know if that happened - if it did than we need to be afraid, very afraid....

Bottom line is losses fall on the Head Coach...we can't fire Monte, he's already gone - if you think that's going to fix what has happened here then I guess we're all set...personally, I don't feel its enough.
Jason I can almost guarantee you to a certainty that Gruden was told hands off the Defense...You should be able to see that with the past comments by Monte and the way that Gruden does not interfere with the Defense...Please tell me you are swaying away from the obvious...OBD


JasonOfthetower

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#25 : December 28, 2008, 09:00:00 PM

LoL please tell me you are totally going to blame the HC for all the mess up and all the injuries...Your like the guy in stands today that blame the "Offensive Guru" and then said to let him go....I stated after the comment that I really didn't see Gruden on any of the plays...Playing on the field...I stated that all plays are supposed to work and he stated "yes for positive yards". I then thought about him being a Coach for a High School team that was in our section...I wanted to so ask him do you ever blame the players but he got up and left...Go Figure...Just when I was warming up...OBD

Well, hey, its great that the head coach doesn't decide who makes the football team, depth at various positions, and how to use the weapons he has...

Oh wait...he does...
Not on defense Jason...Let it sink in...OBD

If the Head Coach doesn't decide the personnel on the defense than he shouldn't be the Head Coach. OBD, no one absolves Monte...but Gruden is the head coach of this football team. If Monte was sandbagging it the last few weeks, then he needed to put Monte to the side and have Raheem take over the defense...I don't know if that happened - if it did than we need to be afraid, very afraid....

Bottom line is losses fall on the Head Coach...we can't fire Monte, he's already gone - if you think that's going to fix what has happened here then I guess we're all set...personally, I don't feel its enough.
Jason I can almost guarantee you to a certainty that Gruden was told hands off the Defense...You should be able to see that with the past comments by Monte and the way that Gruden does not interfere with the Defense...Please tell me you are swaying away from the obvious...OBD

OBD, I don't disagree, you're probably right - but I still view that as a failure on his part. You can't coach half the team, that brought about Dungy's downfall here.


ONEBIGDADDY

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#26 : December 28, 2008, 09:42:54 PM

LoL please tell me you are totally going to blame the HC for all the mess up and all the injuries...Your like the guy in stands today that blame the "Offensive Guru" and then said to let him go....I stated after the comment that I really didn't see Gruden on any of the plays...Playing on the field...I stated that all plays are supposed to work and he stated "yes for positive yards". I then thought about him being a Coach for a High School team that was in our section...I wanted to so ask him do you ever blame the players but he got up and left...Go Figure...Just when I was warming up...OBD

Well, hey, its great that the head coach doesn't decide who makes the football team, depth at various positions, and how to use the weapons he has...

Oh wait...he does...
Not on defense Jason...Let it sink in...OBD

If the Head Coach doesn't decide the personnel on the defense than he shouldn't be the Head Coach. OBD, no one absolves Monte...but Gruden is the head coach of this football team. If Monte was sandbagging it the last few weeks, then he needed to put Monte to the side and have Raheem take over the defense...I don't know if that happened - if it did than we need to be afraid, very afraid....

Bottom line is losses fall on the Head Coach...we can't fire Monte, he's already gone - if you think that's going to fix what has happened here then I guess we're all set...personally, I don't feel its enough.
Jason I can almost guarantee you to a certainty that Gruden was told hands off the Defense...You should be able to see that with the past comments by Monte and the way that Gruden does not interfere with the Defense...Please tell me you are swaying away from the obvious...OBD

OBD, I don't disagree, you're probably right - but I still view that as a failure on his part. You can't coach half the team, that brought about Dungy's downfall here.
I agree blame lays on both sides but (I am being a conspirator here) the last four weeks mixes with the Lane Kiffen Announcement...That just seems too coincidental. I can't let Monte off easy now...Sorry...OBD




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#27 : December 28, 2008, 10:03:34 PM

Jon Gruden is the HEAD COACH of the football team...this means he's responsible for ALL ASPECTS of the football team - the offense, the defense, the special teams, free agency, who makes it and who doesn't...all of it.

This is the greatest late season collapse in NFL history...how can any coach survive that?
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/dec/22/sp-bucs-now-face-historic-collapse/sports-bucs/

Marty Shottenheimer got fired after 14-2, Dungy got fired for not winning in the playoffs, surely Gruden can be fired for this debacle.



You same people however...not sayin you Jason....were crtitical of Jon when we were winning ugly

It doesnt go both ways

You cannot be critical in wins and losses

You cannot say Jon's offense is bad and the defense is good and not give credit for the defense to Jon....then turn around and be critical of Jon for bad defense

jerseybucsfan

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#28 : December 28, 2008, 10:16:09 PM

That's true, ut. But not all losses are created equal either.
This quartet stings worse than anything since 2003.

In Verner We Trust

JasonOfthetower

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#29 : December 28, 2008, 10:17:08 PM

Jon Gruden is the HEAD COACH of the football team...this means he's responsible for ALL ASPECTS of the football team - the offense, the defense, the special teams, free agency, who makes it and who doesn't...all of it.

This is the greatest late season collapse in NFL history...how can any coach survive that?
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/dec/22/sp-bucs-now-face-historic-collapse/sports-bucs/

Marty Shottenheimer got fired after 14-2, Dungy got fired for not winning in the playoffs, surely Gruden can be fired for this debacle.



You same people however...not sayin you Jason....were crtitical of Jon when we were winning ugly

It doesnt go both ways

You cannot be critical in wins and losses

You cannot say Jon's offense is bad and the defense is good and not give credit for the defense to Jon....then turn around and be critical of Jon for bad defense

While the defense was definitely the catalyst for the collapse, the offense didn't help much. We weren't sustaining drives, we weren't protecting the football, we weren't avoiding penalties or scoring in the red zone. The offense sucked today as much as the defense did. We only managed 24 points against the 27th ranked defense in the NFL...and 7 of those were set up by the defense because of an 81 yd interception return. The O sucked today, just as it did in Atlanta and against another bad defense against San Diego....Special teams wasn't much to write home about today either. It wasn't just the defense and it hasn't been just the defense during this slump.

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