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cyberdude557

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#15 : December 29, 2008, 01:57:58 AM

How do you know? You take a poll?

I have a feeling the Gruden-haters are a lot more vocal than the Gruden-supporters.

Many are also mis-informed Duemig fans....they dont count.

MLBrandow

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#16 : December 29, 2008, 02:02:02 AM

Also, I've been to SI, ESPN, and numerous other sites that talk about which coaches are in trouble...not even a single one says Gruden's seat is even remotely warm.

Does that mean anything? Not really. But these people do have some sense of idea who is in trouble according to their sources. They knew Dungy was in trouble long before the ax came down.


This old "Gruden stole Dungy's team" argument is really getting very old.  It was old when it was first made in '03, and it's still old six seasons later.  Give it a rest.

One guy puts together a cogent sentence structure and everyone pats him on the back?  This OP's argument is full of holes, not the least of which are as follows:

- Gruden has dealt with injuries to key positions in every season since 2002.
- Gruden left the Raiders after the '01 season when they were robbed of a Super Bowl birth in the championship game, and subsequently made the Super Bowl with an awful coach the next year.
- He had to gut and rebuild this team.



You guys must be hardcore bandwagon fans to be ridiculing him after a 9-7 season where he lost his starting QB for almost half the season, his star WR (effectively permanently, because by the time Galloway was healthy he was replaced), and two running backs.

The defense is rebuilding and shouldn't miss a beat.  There's some signs of age at key positions, but the players are already in place to fix that, and they are ready to go.


Be glad your team's losing season with many injuries is a 9-7 year.





And to the person I quoted, perhaps there is something that all of the sports world knows that you and the other bandwagon fans in this thread don't?  Gruden isn't on the hot seat because he's a great coach.  They drafted nothing but defense for a while, and finally gave him some weapons.  One had a record-breaking rookie season, whereby the success went to his head and he slacked off.... Clayton has never recovered.  One won ROTY in 2006, followed by two crippling knee injuries that I'll be highly impressed to see him recover from.


And no one in here can tell me the Bucs would have still lost that came had Cadillac not been hurt.  He screamed and howled in pain right in front of the entire Bucs bench after carrying that offense most of the game.  The Bucs were morally defeated and deflated at that point.  Had they won, we'd be talking about the Bucs in a playoff rematch against the Giants rather than reading this trash about how he needs to be fired.


I'm done ranting, but hopefully you read at least some part of this, because it very clearly should put all of you in your places.  You should be ashamed to call yourselves Bucs fans bantering on this way.

ToddyBuc

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#17 : December 29, 2008, 02:07:54 AM

.. Scrolling the Espn ticker this week and hear that Gruden will be fired from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, then I will be even more excited for the 2009 season..  

Bucs-Lightning already World Champions. Rays Next!!!

ToddyBuc

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#18 : December 29, 2008, 02:11:36 AM

Also, I've been to SI, ESPN, and numerous other sites that talk about which coaches are in trouble...not even a single one says Gruden's seat is even remotely warm.

Does that mean anything? Not really. But these people do have some sense of idea who is in trouble according to their sources. They knew Dungy was in trouble long before the ax came down.


This old "Gruden stole Dungy's team" argument is really getting very old.  It was old when it was first made in '03, and it's still old six seasons later.  Give it a rest.

One guy puts together a cogent sentence structure and everyone pats him on the back?  This OP's argument is full of holes, not the least of which are as follows:

- Gruden has dealt with injuries to key positions in every season since 2002.
- Gruden left the Raiders after the '01 season when they were robbed of a Super Bowl birth in the championship game, and subsequently made the Super Bowl with an awful coach the next year.
- He had to gut and rebuild this team.



You guys must be hardcore bandwagon fans to be ridiculing him after a 9-7 season where he lost his starting QB for almost half the season, his star WR (effectively permanently, because by the time Galloway was healthy he was replaced), and two running backs.

The defense is rebuilding and shouldn't miss a beat.  There's some signs of age at key positions, but the players are already in place to fix that, and they are ready to go.


Be glad your team's losing season with many injuries is a 9-7 year.





And to the person I quoted, perhaps there is something that all of the sports world knows that you and the other bandwagon fans in this thread don't?  Gruden isn't on the hot seat because he's a great coach.  They drafted nothing but defense for a while, and finally gave him some weapons.  One had a record-breaking rookie season, whereby the success went to his head and he slacked off.... Clayton has never recovered.  One won ROTY in 2006, followed by two crippling knee injuries that I'll be highly impressed to see him recover from.


And no one in here can tell me the Bucs would have still lost that came had Cadillac not been hurt.  He screamed and howled in pain right in front of the entire Bucs bench after carrying that offense most of the game.  The Bucs were morally defeated and deflated at that point.  Had they won, we'd be talking about the Bucs in a playoff rematch against the Giants rather than reading this trash about how he needs to be fired.


I'm done ranting, but hopefully you read at least some part of this, because it very clearly should put all of you in your places.  You should be ashamed to call yourselves Bucs fans bantering on this way.

I feel you, but I've been a fan since we started the franchise.. I  can call a spade when I need to. Gruden has lost his mojo. Every team has injuries..
And believe me, in Denver-Philadelphia-Washington-New York fans call it like they see it.. It's about time Tampa acts like a big market city, that it has become..  And our media needs to pressure the Glazers as well..  big city media does it.. Tampa's turn.

Bucs-Lightning already World Champions. Rays Next!!!

MLBrandow

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#19 : December 29, 2008, 02:24:03 AM

I feel you, but I've been a fan since we started the franchise.. I  can call a spade when I need to. Gruden has lost his mojo. Every team has injuries..
And believe me, in Denver-Philadelphia-Washington-New York fans call it like they see it.. It's about time Tampa acts like a big market city, that it has become..  And our media needs to pressure the Glazers as well..  big city media does it.. Tampa's turn.

The Titans were ready to fire Jeff Fisher the last two seasons.

I think if there is an achilles to Gruden's philosophy/system/mojo/what-have-you, it's that he really needs a brilliant, scrambling QB for his offense to take off the way he wants.  I think his main flaw might well be that his offense might just be too complex for its own good.  When it takes some of the smarter guys in the league (Simms, say what you will about his skill, is a very smart guy, as is Griese and to a lesser extent Garcia) two and three seasons to master it, you might call it overly complex.

The only other team I can think of with as many recurrent injuries to vital positions (not just in general, but actual necessary positions) are the Jets, and they had three dismally losing seasons and then fired their coach.


Think back to last year.  The Bucs easily could have been 11-5 walking into the playoffs buhttp://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?topic=33702.msg711818#quickreplyt because they clinched early (since our division was so terrible) they just kind of half-assed it in Week 16 then sat their starters.  This year, the Bucs just got unlucky with some key injuries.

They did collapse in the last month, and he deserves the blame for that for being the head coach, but I don't buy that he's on the hot seat nor should he be fired.


However, if after next season the Bucs are healthy, with the great OL they have now, and the Offense isn't clicking after he's rebuilt and retooled it entirely... I think these complaints will hold water.




Plus, who will you replace him with?  Bill Cowher?


Also I highly disagree that Tampa is a big market city.  Sure this town has 3 world championships and another in finals in this decade, but it's not a major market.    The four teams you mentioned all have markets two to three times the size of the Bucs.

SON-OF-ZELL

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#20 : December 29, 2008, 06:56:15 AM

I've come a long way with Gruden.

After Dungy got fired as he did, I was disappointed to say the least. The guy brought us consistent success with admirable leadership. He was great for the Bucs, and the community. I'll stop at that.

Gruden arrived here and most fans were slow to accept him. The contrast between one patient teacher in Dungy, and the cheap, grading, personality of Gruden did not make for an easy transition.  Winning solved this.

Since 2002, we have gotten both winning and losing, with the only constant being Gruden's version of why things did or did not happen.

The defense has supported this team for the longest time. You know it. I know it. We all know it. Without the D being as dependably good as they have generally been, Gruden would not have anything close to a winning record. That shouldn't lead to debate. Be honest.

So what is to look forward too? What is the progression of this team? Is this as best as it gets under Gruden? I think so.

What good reason exists for us to keep Gruden? We do not need him for the defense. Only the offense. His record indicates a failing effort. If we are to blame Kiffin for the Defense when it fails, so should Gruden take the blame for the shaky offense that we see annually.

Maybe this will put our whole situation into perspective. Here is my question...

What player, currently playing for the Bucs, has had sustained success in Gruden's offense? Can anyone name me one frickin' person?????

How the hell does this guy keep his job? What in the world are you waiting for GLAZERS?

Meanwhile, the division improves..  And us?










DOES 52-9 AND TWO FIRST ROUND PLAYOFF LOSSES MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU ( THAT IS WHY SAINT DUNGY WAS FIRED)....WHO GIVES A FLYING FART ABOUT THE CHARACTER OF THE COACH THIS IS A FOOTBALL TEAM NOT A CHRISTIAN MISSION ORGANIZATION................


BucsGuru

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#21 : December 29, 2008, 07:04:54 AM

After Dungy got fired as he did, I was disappointed to say the least.

It was time for Dungy to go. Even Sapp agrees. The Bucs couldn't get past the Eagles and never would have if Dungy hadn't been fired. We wouldn't have a superbowl championship if he'd have stayed here. He just was not taking the team to the next level.

I understand, and am totally not trying to go there. It is the past.



I agree on the Dungy thing...to a point.  The Eagles were a great team, with a great coach, that went to the SB themselves.  IMO, when the Bucs fired Dungy, the team had a vendetta.  You could have brought Bill Parcells in, or RIver Phoenix; they ended up choosing Jon Gruden.  The 2002 defensive squad was on a mission, Gruden was long for the ride.  Seriously, what blueprint did he bring that was used in 2002 worked?  His Chucky face?  And if what "HE" did was so successful, then why hasn't it even been close to returning to that since then??  Even Barry Switzer won a SB..........

MLBrandow

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#22 : December 29, 2008, 12:39:24 PM

Interesting to note something I read in the paper this morning:  Bucs offense this season was the most prolific in team history.  They were 14th in offense, and I can't remember the Bucs ever being in the top half of the league in that stat.
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