Consider this when bashing the S's

[BuckEmUp]

TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS DEFENSE:
OVERALL: 20th (329.3 ypg)
RUSHING: 30th (163.3 ypg)
PASSING: 7th (166.0 ypg)

Many people on this board including myself have been baching Allen and Phillips really hard for their play the first few weeks.  Maybe I should add Barber and Kelly to that since they have been hearing a lot of criticism because of their play as well.  When you look at these numbers it seems to show that it is not the secondary that is playing bad but the Dline and LB's.  I know that the S's and CB's have been missing was to many tackles but so has the rest of the team.  The problem with blaming the S's and CB'c for not taking down the RB's is that the running back should never have even made it that far.  This D is ranked number 7 aginst the pass allowing only 166 yards per game.  That to me sounds pretty good considering the run D which is controlled by the Dline and LB's is ranked 30th and giving up 163.3 yards per game.  The bottom line is that the D as a whole needs to play better but more needs to be said about the Dline and LB's and less about how bad the S's are because the numbers prove that they are not the biggest weakness.

[Boid Fink]

Basic visual observation, and common knowledge is that JP is playing like a mound of crap.

Nuff said.

I think if you were to ask him personally, he would say that his "game" leaves a lot to be desired, at least this year.

[cheveliar]

Dude you can't lay it out any better.  The cover 2 is predicated on your UT getting pressure first.  You MLB being able to make the right fit in a gap and dropping to deep middle, then your SS being a very good tackler and he needs to make big plays.  Flips ain't doing it bro.  He's just not.  Neither is Booger.  He's been playing like crap and getting no pressure...

[BuckEmUp]

Boid, I know what you are saying, he could and should be doing a lot more.  Phillips should be inside helping with the run because that is supposed to be his strong suit.  The thing is that him and Allen are playing well in pass protection and people were saying that neither one of the could cover.  The stats show that to be wrong, and if the Dline was getting more pressure the D would probably be giving up less pass yards then rushing yards right now.  Allen is not supposed to be the S that comes into the box to help stop the run therefore when people are saying he is playing very bad and should not be the starter they are wrong.  There is no denying the fact that they could be doing more but they are doing a good job helping take away the pass.

[Boid Fink]

Boid, I know what you are saying, he could and should be doing a lot more.  Phillips should be inside helping with the run because that is supposed to be his strong suit.  The thing is that him and Allen are playing well in pass protection and people were saying that neither one of the could cover.  The stats show that to be wrong, and if the Dline was getting more pressure the D would probably be giving up less pass yards then rushing yards right now.  Allen is not supposed to be the S that comes into the box to help stop the run therefore when people are saying he is playing very bad and should not be the starter they are wrong.  There is no denying the fact that they could be doing more but they are doing a good job helping take away the pass.

Well consider this then.  Why pass the ball when the ground game is drilling the Bucs defense into the ground?  The Bucs are giving up a very high percentage of passes in terms of completion percentage.  Therefore, I think if the opposing offense decides to pass (which they usually don't when they have an established run game going), they could be sealing the deal a lot quicker.  The Bucs are playing from behind the majority of the time.  Teams usually reduce the amount of pass attempts in that circumstance, in other words.  The pass defense is skewed by the overwhelmingly bad run defense.  And that is about as simple as it can get.

The Bucs have how many INTs?  One.  Not good for a pass defense at all, considering how "good" they are supposed to be in coverage.  The numbers are skewed bro.

Edit:  AS for giving up less yards rushing if they generate ANY kind of pressure...maybe.  But when the DTs are going hog wild at the QB, they usually let the RBs slip right by them, so you never know.

[BuckEmUp]

It is just my opinion, but if they are stopind the run and generating any kind of pass rush the QB will have to release the ball quicker and thats when the secondary can make more plays.  You are right teams dont have to pass and that further proves my point.  If the Dline was generating more of a rush the RB's would have to side step them in the backfield allowing the LB's to close the gap and make a play.  A little bit of consistant pressure would do damage to the other teams rushing and passing game.  I don't know what changes need to be made but something needs to be done and it should start up front.  People say that our running and passing game is strugling because the other teams Dline is getting to much pressure so wouldn't it work the same way for the other team?

[Boid Fink]

It is just my opinion, but if they are stopind the run and generating any kind of pass rush the QB will have to release the ball quicker and thats when the secondary can make more plays. You are right teams dont have to pass and that further proves my point. If the Dline was generating more of a rush the RB's would have to side step them in the backfield allowing the LB's to close the gap and make a play. A little bit of consistant pressure would do damage to the other teams rushing and passing game. I don't know what changes need to be made but something needs to be done and it should start up front. People say that our running and passing game is strugling because the other teams Dline is getting to much pressure so wouldn't it work the same way for the other team?

Well at least we are both confounded by the Bucs defense this year.  It is baffling, to say the least.

[miamicanes04]

The best player IMO this year on defence(consistently) has been Brian Kelly. He has only played 2 games though.

[BuckEmUp]

Boid, that we can def. agree on. 
Miami,  I would also like to add that I think that Bolden has done a better then expected job in coverage this year.  Last year I thought that he was getting burnt on the regular.  I wonder if there has ever been any thought about playing him at S in obvious passing downs.  I wonder if there are any good DT's on the chopping block.  I also wonder if the Bucs have considered moving Spires inside and playing White at DE.  I hope they start making some changes because it is obvious, and has been for a few years, that McFat isn't going to get it done.

[keeponbucn]

Well consider this then.  Why pass the ball when the ground game is drilling the Bucs defense into the ground?  The Bucs are giving up a very high percentage of passes in terms of completion percentage.  Therefore, I think if the opposing offense decides to pass (which they usually don't when they have an established run game going), they could be sealing the deal a lot quicker.  The Bucs are playing from behind the majority of the time.  Teams usually reduce the amount of pass attempts in that circumstance, in other words.  The pass defense is skewed by the overwhelmingly bad run defense.  And that is about as simple as it can get.

The Bucs have how many INTs?  One.  Not good for a pass defense at all, considering how "good" they are supposed to be in coverage.  The numbers are skewed bro.

Edit: AS for giving up less yards rushing if they generate ANY kind of pressure...maybe. But when the DTs are going hog wild at the QB, they usually let the RBs slip right by them, so you never know.

I agree. Another aspect that contributes to the bloated pass defense is teams have gone ahead ealry in the game. Before the Saints game the Bucs held a lead for all of 2 mintues.  

It does all start up front....it's been disgusting to watch the past few games. We all knew this would happen sooner than later, the time is now. While they'll play great in a couple of games, the bulk of it will be a shell.....

[drywallbuc]

i sure hope the pass def. is that good, we'll definetly need it this week.

[karen anderson]

If the problem is tackling & they all say it's not the scheme or the coaches & they all KNOW how to tackle then what the hell is the problem?? It seems more a matter of want to.

[BuckEmUp]

Karen, I am pretty sure that the players on this team "want" to make bit time plays.  People blame the Oline when the Bucs can not do anything on offense so why should it be any different for the D?  I understand where everybody is coming from about the Pass numbers being lower because other teams have not passed much but rather than using that as a reason to bach the Dline and LB's people are still bashing Barber and the S'f for missed tackles.  There is no excuse for missed tackles but the RB never should have gotten that far.  I do not know how the players practice but I do know how I would like the D to look, and its like this:

                                                                              Allen                                                       Phillips
                            Barber                                                                                                                                                             Kelly
                                                                Brooks                                   Rudd                                          Quarles
                                                                              Rice               Spies              Hovan            White
Then use Winborn and Nece as the main backup LB's with Q moving back and forth from MLB and SLB with some rest.  McFat could sub in for either Hovan or Spires while Whyms could still get some reps.  They should also consider bringing AW back to help out with the line rotation, I never understood him being cut.  I do not know what direction this team is going in any more.  That is what makes this whole season so much worse.

[Pick6]

when teams run on you at will, why would you try to pass?

[LA BUC]

Clayton is our best safety bar none!