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LFO

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#30 : January 01, 2009, 07:19:21 PM

As stated above, Garner bought out of Oakland..... and it was widely known he was coming here. It was also known that dude was fresh off the operating table AND we gave him more upfront $$ than a younger TJ got from Chicago.



And, as stated above, TJ wanted out to go where he would be handed the starting job....he did not expect nor should he to be handed that here...with Pittman coming off a better season and fan favorite Alstott around.  TJ had done nothing to "earn" being handed anything in Tampa.  It is clear he did not want to even try to do that. 

If TJ wanted to stay and share/fight for carries, I seriously doubt they would have let him go for Garner.  Garner was a contingency plan for when they knew TJ wanted out for a starting gig. 

Bottom line, Garner wasn't signed "over" TJ.  He was signed because TJ wanted to leave.

k_bassuka

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#31 : January 01, 2009, 07:38:49 PM

Bunch of bandwagon jumpers, if he was so great and the reason why the JETS were any good this year how come last year he only scored 2 total TD in 16 games and the year before that only 6 total TD in 16 games, Cadillac scored 4 in 6 games more like 2 whole games, and that’s without a HoF QB, yeah the one that most of you BANDWAGON jumpers cried about when BA couldn't get a deal done. How did that turned out in NY, not so good right.

Just accept the fact that if this team made all the moves that us crazy fans wanted to do our record would look more like the Lions than a 9-7.

Let’s see we cried about:
 
Lord Favre
WR Johnson
WR Hackett
WR Walker
TE Crumpler
CB Samuel (good player but not for $57 million to only have 4 INT)

None of those guys made that great impact that most of us thought they were going to make.

SON-OF-ZELL

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#32 : January 01, 2009, 08:35:25 PM

WEll TJ is no longer with the Bears, they obviously didn't think he was the Shi1 either......


rpc1978

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#33 : January 01, 2009, 08:36:57 PM

WEll TJ is no longer with the Bears, they obviously didn't think he was the Shi1 either......

they made a mistake and chose benson over jones. 

Bschucher

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#34 : January 01, 2009, 08:39:51 PM

A mistake... end of story.

LFO

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#35 : January 01, 2009, 08:42:02 PM

WEll TJ is no longer with the Bears, they obviously didn't think he was the Shi1 either......

they made a mistake and chose benson over jones.  

And, they made so with a lot more evidence that TJ was a great player.....was there something else with TJ?

Again, I think HE was the one who chose to leave the Bucs, not the other way around.  It also appears HE chose to leave Chicago, as he was again afraid of the competition.  

It seems the guy shy's away from competition and wants things handed to him.  Good player or not...that is not an attitude I want on my team.  And of course, now the guy is trashing his QB publicly after a season....

Feel Real Good

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#36 : January 01, 2009, 11:05:29 PM

And, they made so with a lot more evidence that TJ was a great player.....was there something else with TJ?

Again, I think HE was the one who chose to leave the Bucs, not the other way around.  It also appears HE chose to leave Chicago, as he was again afraid of the competition. 

It seems the guy shy's away from competition and wants things handed to him.  Good player or not...that is not an attitude I want on my team.  And of course, now the guy is trashing his QB publicly after a season....
He was traded because they had too much invested in Benson to keep him on the bench. As a common NFL fan it was obvious Jones was better than Benson, but it became political. Jones definitely chose to leave Tampa, but I don't think he chose to leave Chicago.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

fishman

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#37 : January 02, 2009, 07:23:06 AM

WEll TJ is no longer with the Bears, they obviously didn't think he was the Shi1 either......

they made a mistake and chose benson over jones. 

And, they made so with a lot more evidence that TJ was a great player.....was there something else with TJ?

Again, I think HE was the one who chose to leave the Bucs, not the other way around.  It also appears HE chose to leave Chicago, as he was again afraid of the competition. 

It seems the guy shy's away from competition and wants things handed to him.  Good player or not...that is not an attitude I want on my team.  And of course, now the guy is trashing his QB publicly after a season....
In case you haven't noticed, the whole Jets team is trashing Favre. Sounds like they have good reason. The Jets gave him a special private office??? Seriously? Sure, TJ is probably a little **CENSORED**y and maybe that was a factor in why the Bucs didn't try to resign him. Bottom line is this guy is someone you could have built your offense around and we let him go. Bucs had privilege to watching him play first hand for 7/8 months and they couldnt see that he was worth 2.5 million dollars. It shows me Gruden/BA can't evaluate talent or are too stubborn to change schemes to meet the talents of their players.

It was a mistake, yet another mistake, by personnel management. Stop making excuses for them. They need to own up for their mistakes. They've whiffed in 7 drafts with 1 exception, Barrett Ruud. They've completely stunk in FA moves. They aren't getting us the talent this team needs to be very competitive in this league.

"The reality is we came in with a bad salary cap situation and we left with some $50 million under the cap, so it's not like we went out and spent a lot of money on players." JG

InlandTaipan

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#38 : January 02, 2009, 08:31:00 AM

Because the Bears over paid for his services and then traded him to the Jets
they didnt overpay him. They bought him in to back up Anthony Thomas. He did so well right off the bat they started him.

Maybe didn't overpay him but they sure as heck traded him to the Jets...My point it yeah he has good stats but I don't think he's all that.
Um no, the Bears traded T. Jones because they just drafted Cedric Benson the year before (the same year we drafted Cadillac). T. Jones requested a trade because he didn't want to split time and Chicago agreed because they felt they were ready to feature their great draft pick, Cedric Benson. Anyone know what C. Benson's doing right now?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2788962

B&B - first of all Faneca started with the Jets this year. T Jones has gotten over 1100 yards the last 3 years there. And then he did the same in Chicago too. He managed to stay healthy five seasons in a row Do you see those stats 1184 YARDS AVERAGE FOR FIVE YEARS. That doesnt even include receiving yards out of the backfield on screens, etc... And he did for 2 different teams. He averaged 4.6 yards a carry over 3 starts for US. And we let him go for Charlie Garner!!!! B&B - answer me this. How many Bucs players in history have run for more yards in a season than T. Jones 1312 this year?

Look - I'm not Thomas Jones agent. I'm just trying to make the point that this was yet another bad personnel move by TB. Looks like some of you are as stubborn as John Gruden to admit a MISTAKE when you see one. How many examples do we need of company mismangement before we decide to cut our losses?

Doesn't matter WHY they traded him to the Jets they did...And if he was so good then why draft Benson...obviously I disagree with you that Jones is has value, you like him I don't...I also disagree that it was a bad move by the Bucs and their front office...Jones is a journeyman that can't seem to find a system that fits him plus he's also become a cancer by voicing his frustrations in a public forumn...IMO, that stuff needs to be addressed behind closed doors with his team mates and not crying in public looking for sympathy.

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#39 : January 02, 2009, 10:29:04 AM

I think this thread is supposed to make you think that the bucs organization let Thomas Jones go.  He signed the first minute into free agency with a team willing to pay him for his services.  He did ok here, but not spectacular and fumbled every time he got a 2nd chance.  We didn't have a chance to make a personnel move.  our cap was crap and he, like Warrick Dunn, took the money.  Who could blame him?

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#40 : January 02, 2009, 10:40:22 AM

He rightly knew he was better than Pittman, Garner, and Alstott. As has often been the case, Gruden is more comfortable with mediocre depth than front line star players.

these kinds of statements seem completely ridiculous to me.  Do you really think Gruden would rather have mediocre players than star players?  You seem pretty intelligent FRG...do you seriously believe this is the case?  So Gruden would rather have mediocre players because star players clash with his ego or something?  Is that what these kinds of statements are trying to say?

Chucky4mayor

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#41 : January 02, 2009, 10:55:40 AM

Meanwhile, we take an old guy fresh off the operating table and give him more $$ than TJ.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1754974

well your link also says that the Broncos traded Clinton Portis that offseason and were also trying to get Garner to be their running back to replace Portis.  Im not too sure many people would question the Broncos running game this past decade and Shannahan seemed to want Garner as well while letting go of a way better player than Thomas Jones.

and seriously though...are we really talking about Thomas Jones like he is some great thing?  He's had some good seasons but what did he do for us?  not a whole lot, i remember him fumbling a lot and Pittman being just as productive if not more with his ability to catch passes.  No way were we going to cut Pittman and no way was Thomas Jones going to resign with us unless Pitt was gone.  You don't just resign a player on your team because he's good and you want him back...there is a lot more that goes into it.  Lets see, Thomas Jones is on his what, 4th NFL team?  That should say something right there. 

I'm sure there are threads like this in other cities about guys like TO....no way certain players in this league will ever spend their career with 1 team.  money talks and we weren't in the situation to make Jones the focus RB and pay him big.  What happened in Chicago when they drafted Benson....goodbye Jones, now the guy is trashing Bret Favre, a guy that took almost put them in the playoffs in a very tough division and a guy that helped put Jones numbers through the roof, probably helping his wallet down the road.  It's easy to see the kind of guy TJ is.....sorry but blaming Gruden for this one is a joke.

Feel Real Good

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#42 : January 02, 2009, 12:13:56 PM

He rightly knew he was better than Pittman, Garner, and Alstott. As has often been the case, Gruden is more comfortable with mediocre depth than front line star players.

these kinds of statements seem completely ridiculous to me.  Do you really think Gruden would rather have mediocre players than star players?  You seem pretty intelligent FRG...do you seriously believe this is the case?  So Gruden would rather have mediocre players because star players clash with his ego or something?  Is that what these kinds of statements are trying to say?
How else do you explain trading for Brian Griese, Tim Rattay, and Luke McCown in addition to years of trying out every other quarterback off the scrap heap while never spending a quality draft pick on one? Not signing a stud runner like Michael Turner because he already had a stable of average backs? Bringing in Douglas, Wilkerson, Chukwurah, and Carter to fix the pass rush instead of a front line starter? That's what the Bucs always do - throw a bunch against the wall and hope something sticks.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

jerseybucsfan

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#43 : January 02, 2009, 12:40:51 PM

It's very easy to guess who's going to get hurt or not hurt years after the fact.
If you recall the Indy game, TJ failed us when we needed a runner to step up with both Alstott and Pittman down. Maybe we should have given him more carries in 2003, but after gaining 1,264 yards in three seasons in the NFL, we weren't the only ones to not know he hadn't peaked yet. Generally speaking RBs don't wait until their sixth season to hit their stride.
As for the Garner signing, his injury wasn't so obvious. Different leg and happened because of the godawful Oakland turf. And his signing was NOT a slamdunk either. We were close on Staley too.

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Feel Real Good

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#44 : January 02, 2009, 12:58:04 PM

Staley would have been a bust, too.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.
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