~~~~~Official Rays 2009 season thread~~~~~~

[Biggs3535]

And what about guys like Burrell coming in with a big contract, then Upton only has to look to his right in the field and see Crawford make his salary ten times over. �Yeah, no resentment there. � His playoff run alone was worth more than what they signed him to. �You have to remember we are dealing with people, not robots.

Talk about bad comparisons. � You act like BJ is the only guy who has every played under these type of conditions. �Maybe he should have built on that playoff run instead of laying a complete egg this season.

I'd be interested to see who is comparable to BJ stat-wise(fielding, HR, SB,etc.)  and what thier salaries are?

How about Adam Jones, Jacoby Ellsbury, or Franklin Gutierrez?

[olafberserker]

You're completely delusional.� Like I said when he fulfills his potential, then he can hustle when he feels like it.� In the mean time, his poor attitude is a detriment to the team.

Is it really now? Last I checked, the Rays had 2 of the best seasons in team history with Upton patrolling Center. Check his postseason stats too if you still have your doubts. He carried us into the World Series. You're the one who is delusional.

You should read more.  I already acknowledged his playoff performance.  Last I checked there were 8 other players on the field and a pretty damn good pitching staff around for that WS run as well.   His attitude is poor and his lack of hustle has hurt us many a time.

[olafberserker]

Serious selective use of statistics and facts going on around here.

[bucs90]

And if you're comparing talent levels between Delmon Young and BJ Upton... I'm sorry, but I have to question your knowledge of the game.

Which one of those players had more HR's, a higher average, more RBI's, and less strikeouts in each of the last 2 seasons?

BJ is definitely more talented, but hasn't lived up to it outside of 2007.

http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=5015&playerid2=2140&playerid3=&position=OF&page=5&type=full
http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=5015&playerid2=2140&playerid3=&position=OF&page=8&type=full (even with a HORRID season, Upton and Delmon have matching wOBA's)

There's really no comparison. I'll take a stat that measures how a player does in all of is AB's rather than a stat like HR's that happen like what, once every 40-50 AB's? How many times a player K's or Walks means more to me than that.

Really? �You give me a K/BB graph as evidence to talent?

HR, average, RBI, and K - checkmate Young
BB - checkmate Upton

Young's BB numbers are just as atrocious as Upton's K numbers.

I'm glad we traded Young, but you're comparing apples to oranges. Who got us to the playoffs in 2008? Down the stretch, BJ Upton put us on his back and ran with us...AND in the post-season too. Oh how soon we forget. Zobrist/Rodriguez sharing time in CF? Oh my goodness, what a trainwreck that would be. Hopefully the same people who complain about Upton loafing it will be the ones asking, "Why wasn't he even close to getting that!?". I admit, BJ Upton might slack once in a while in the OF, but it's far from being an everyday thing, FAR from being enough to ship a guy out of town.

You've obviously misunderstood anything I've ever typed on Upton - he's an extremely talented player and an excellent OF.

The question was posed who would you rather trade, Upton or CC. �I'd keep CC over Upton at this point. �He's been more consistent than Upton, although Upton has the ceiling to be a better baseball player than CC.

Jennings could play CF this year if he needed to, and he's not much of a drop-off out there - if any.

FYI, Upton's .291 avg., 1 HR, and 4 RBI's in September of 2008 didn't get the Rays in the playoffs.  That's ridiculous.  He had an amazing postseason, but he didn't put ANYTHING "on his shoulders" to get the team into the playoffs.

Seriously, could you act any more like a casual fan? Batting average as your argument? REALLY? K/BB is completely relevant, you act as if I laid out some ridiculous stat (which was quite humorous might I add). BJ Upton Career OBP (.352), Young (.322), in case you don't know what OBP means, it means ON BASE PERCENTAGE. Their SLG% are virtually the same, so I don't even have to post the OPS (in case you don't understand my point... Upton's OPS is .020+ points higher). Upton's Career wOBA (.340), Young (.319). The fact you're even comparing the two has me in tears (of laughter).

Let me guess, you think W/L and ERA is a big tell-tale sign of how well a pitcher is doing? LMAO.

[Biggs3535]

Geezus, you expect to be taken seriously when you are saying K/BB is more relevant that friggin' batting average?

Yadier Molina has a better BB/K than Joe Mauer, I guess Yadier Molina is more talented.

Wow.

[olafberserker]

*Grabs popcorn

[bucs90]

Geezus, you expect to be taken seriously when you are saying K/BB is more relevant that friggin' batting average?

Yadier Molina has a better BB/K than Joe Mauer, I guess Yadier Molina is more talented.

Wow.

Mauer has the better OBP/OPS/SLG%, so he's better.

And before you say, aha gotcha gotcha! After the K/BB thing, I went ahead and listed both Upton/Young's OBP/OPS/SLG% in the same post.

[Biggs3535]

Mauer has the better OBP/OPS/SLG%, so he's better.

Whew, I'm sure he'll be happy to hear he gets the nod, because the BB/K thing was a big scare for the multiple batting champ.

[bucs90]

Mauer has the better OBP/OPS/SLG%, so he's better.

Whew, I'm sure he'll be happy to hear he gets the nod, because the BB/K thing was a big scare for the multiple batting champ.

So simple minded. Please continue to ignore everything else I laid out for you.

[olafberserker]

That's funny.  I knew Mauer was better and I didn't even need to look up a single stat.    Lucky guess I suppose.

[olafberserker]

I thought you were leaving us simpletons to amuse ourselves.  Tell me though, do they have WiFi at the Trop so you can talk baseball while watching a game?

[bucs90]

I thought you were leaving us simpletons to amuse ourselves.  Tell me though, do they have WiFi at the Trop so you can talk baseball while watching a game?

I have a 3G laptop card, I try to avoid the people who swear up and down that Garza and Shields are terrible pitchers because they have losing records. Almost sounds like this place to be honest. It's my own fault though, I should have never expected quality baseball talk on a football site.

[Biggs3535]

Mauer has the better OBP/OPS/SLG%, so he's better.

Whew, I'm sure he'll be happy to hear he gets the nod, because the BB/K thing was a big scare for the multiple batting champ.

So simple minded. Please continue to ignore everything else I laid out for you.

Ha, Mr. BB/K graph calls me simple-minded.  That's priceless.

Hey Billy Bean, primary stats are primary stats for a reason and secondary stats are secondary stats for a reason.  You are trying to piss away primary stats and point to secondary stats to prove you argument, and that's moronic.

[bucs90]

Mauer has the better OBP/OPS/SLG%, so he's better.

Whew, I'm sure he'll be happy to hear he gets the nod, because the BB/K thing was a big scare for the multiple batting champ.

So simple minded. Please continue to ignore everything else I laid out for you.

Ha, Mr. BB/K graph calls me simple-minded.  That's priceless.

Hey Billy Bean, primary stats are primary stats for a reason and secondary stats are secondary stats for a reason.  You are trying to piss away primary stats and point to secondary stats to prove you argument, and that's moronic.

"Primary Stats" are used because 90% of the people who watch baseball aren't capable of understanding stats that say more than batting average. Does batting average factor in how many times a player walks? No.

Whatever, I'd have a better chance at teaching a rock how to swim, than getting through to you guys. Good day.

[olafberserker]

I thought you were leaving us simpletons to amuse ourselves.  Tell me though, do they have WiFi at the Trop so you can talk baseball while watching a game?

I have a 3G laptop card, I try to avoid the people who swear up and down that Garza and Shields are terrible pitchers because they have losing records. Almost sounds like this place to be honest. It's my own fault though, I should have never expected quality baseball talk on a football site.

more arbitrary and random comments to avoid the question