~~~~~Official Rays 2009 season thread~~~~~~

[LFO]

IT won't show up in the box score, but Aki cost us that run. 

I wouldn't say that.

Should he have made the play?  Probably, but that was a rocket hit by one of the game's premiere players with Aki playing farther in than he normally would have been because of the situation.  Hardly a routine double-play ball.

I'd have put the run scoring on the pitching.  Allowing Span to get to second and walking Harris to face Morneau is what hurt them in the ninth.

Who hit it is irrelevant, unless it was someone like Ichiro, Reyes, with blazing speed.  The play should have been made and is one he makes 9 of 10. 

Of course, ideally you don't want to be in that spot, and the pitching was poor prior.  But it's a play that should be made and Howell got the grounder he needed.  Unfortunately execution was not, and the run scored. 

[bigbuc345]

Something better happen tonight. Like leaving Zobrist in RF for more than 4 games.

[Biggs3535]

Who hit it is irrelevant

No it's not.

An infielder playing in would much rather field a ball hit on the screws by Nick Punto than one hit on the screws by Justin Morneau.  That was no routine double-play ball.

[LFO]

Who hit it is irrelevant

No it's not.

An infielder playing in would much rather field a ball hit on the screws by Nick Punto than one hit on the screws by Justin Morneau.  That was no routine double-play ball.

I was referring to the fact that how the ball was hit, it didn't matter who was hitting - after the fact - unless it was a speedy guy. My point was it was a hard hit ball, but a play Aki can and should make...but didn't. 

I brought up the play as one that should have been made...it won't show at as an error but he should make it and even he will tell you that. I understand it was a hard hit ball by a good player, but that was never my argument.  I was calling the play after it happened, not before.

Of course given the choice you want a ball hit by Punto his hardest over Morneau.  But that wasn't the scenario so I did not give my take on it, but rather what did occur, and IMO regardless of how hard or who hit it, Aki can and should make that play.  I am not knocking him for it, just saying, he is good enough to where he can make that play the vast majority of the time.  Hell, he nearly made the play despite coughing it up. 

[LFO]

Ask Aki if he should have made the play.

I never said otherwise.  As a matter of fact, I said he should have made the play.

What happened before the play doesn't matter.

Maybe when you're discussing if Aki should have made the play or not, it doesn't, but I never argued that.  When saying who cost the team the run, it sure does matter what happened before. 

Doesn't matter who hit it, doesn't matter what happened before it, what else doesn't matter when placing blame on the run that ended the game?  Probably every counter-point I make "doesn't matter..."

If he makes the play does it matter what happened before?

No, it doesn't...we'd be out of the inning and tied.

Aki had the ONE play that could have saved the run, and didn't make it.

Of course Howell put him and the team in that spot, and of course he shares blame.

BUT, Aki had a play to absolve all, and a play he can and should make - but didn't.  There were 2 possible outcomes - AKi makes the play and saves a run, or Aki misses the play and costs us a run.  What happened before that single play at that time didn't matter.  I am not BLAMING him for the loss, just saying, he cost us a run there.  If it makes you feel better Howell cost us a run too.....

I think you are over analyzing what I say WAYYY too much.  I guess next time before I post anything I will ask myself:" What will Biggs think?  I think here you are making a big deal over my comment just to argue, which is fine, but I really don't see the point. 

[LFO]

Hopefully we can get Good Kaz tonight.

Blackburn is on the mound, and only faced the Rays once...and didn't get out of the 2nd giving up 6 runs.

I hope we can get a similar results tonight.  It would be nice to go into the Sox series coming off of a win.

[Biggs3535]

I wish I had a dollar for every one of LFO/Ray's posts that began with "LOL."

[LFO]

Where is the new Rays guy, Kennedy I believe his name is?

Hopefully he is gone for good.  I think he sucks.

But, I think it was always a plan to have Kennedy/Anderson share the job.  I am sure we'll see Kennedy soon.  

[Biggs3535]

Navy and Aki just cost us some runs.

[LFO]

If he makes the play does it matter what happened before?

No, it doesn't...we'd be out of the inning and tied.

If Howell doesn't give up 2 singles, a wild pitch, and walk does Morneau even come up to the plate in the ninth?

Give it up. �You said "Aki cost us that run." �That's putting the game winning run on an infielder and not the pitcher who gave up 2 singles, a wild pitch, and walk.

I think you are over analyzing what I say WAYYY too much. �I guess next time before I post anything I will ask myself:" What will Biggs think? �I think here you are making a big deal over my comment just to argue, which is fine, but I really don't see the point. �

Refuting a comment of yours is over analyzing? �How dare I do such a thing? �

If your comments should be taken as gospel and are off limits for discussion, just let me know. �I will abide by whatever rules you specify for your comments. �Otherwise, they will be agreed or disagreed with like any other comments on this message board. �That's kinda how it works.

LOL

He did cost us that run, as he did not make the play.  I never said Howell wasn't at fault, I just said, Aki missed the play and cost us a run. That is a FACT.  Whether you like or want to admit that FACT, it happened. 

So the onus is always on the pitcher, and not the fielders?  Howell made a pitch to get out of the inning, at that point it is up to the fielders to make the plays.  Aki didn't make it that time.  Nobody said it was HIS fault that the runners were there in the first place.  What I said was, he cost us a run by not making the play.  Did that not happen?  If Aki makes the play, what would have happened?  As I said previously, there were 2 outcomes there, cost or save.  Save did not happen.  Not sure why that is hard for you to understand.

The larger point to what I was saying originally was, it won't show up in the box score as an error as you can never assume the DP, but it cost us a run. 

[escobar]

Where is the new Rays guy, Kennedy I believe his name is?

[LFO]

Navy and Aki just cost us some runs.

No way, that is all on Kazmir.  Big league players shouldn't be expected to make that play.     If you want to get it right, Zobrist is the one who should have made that play.

I wish Vegas would have given me odds.  I KNEW you were going to post that. 

[Biggs3535]

Ask Aki if he should have made that play.  Ask Navy if he should have caught that ball.  They should have made those plays.

I purposefully used those two players on those two plays.  It was obviously Kaz and Zobrist who were at fault, and that same logic applies to the play last night.

[LFO]

Ask Aki if he should have made that play.  Ask Navy if he should have caught that ball.  They should have made those plays.

I purposefully used those two players on those two plays.  It was obviously Kaz and Zobrist who were at fault, and that same logic applies to the play last night.

No, it doesn't.

If by your logic AKi wasn't at fault last night, than Zobrist wasn't either.

Either the onus is on the fielder to make the play or the pitcher.  By your logic based on last night, AKi was not at fault because Howell put the guys on base.  Well tonight you are saying Zobrist is at fault and not Kazmir, even though Kazmir put the guys on?  That doesn't make sense.

Here, let me help:

Last night, Aki missed the play a run scored because of it.
Tonight, Kazmir throws a wild pitch, a run scores because of it.
Tonight, Zobrist misses a catchable ball, a run scores because of it.

The second Kaz wild pitch I will say Navy should have caught (or blocked better), but Kaz didn't cover properly either.  Probably both had a hand in that.  But the 1st wild pitch was awful, no better than 50/50 (of that) a good catcher makes that play. 

LOL

[Biggs3535]

Kapler's a friggin' joke.  Add him to the list of Maddon booty-buddies that he has to platoon even though they suck with Nathan Haynes, Tomas Perez, Josh Wilson, etc..