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jerseybucsfan

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#135 : January 08, 2009, 07:42:13 PM

LOL, thanks Fishman. I'm not necessarily all for keeping Gruden either. There are plenty of valid reasons to BE pessimistic. BUT as long as he's here, I'll maintain hope that we/he can turn it around.
Next guy gets the same courtesy.
Why such an approach? As fans, WE can raise up a team. We can CHOOSE to overcome the negativity of the local press and help this team maximize its finish.
This year's fans did an awesome job. 6-2 at home is a nice mark. Some of that is in-stadium enthusiasm, other is the buzz OFF the field. Players claim to isolate themselves, but that's never COMPLETELY true. If we, as fans, have such a strong will to win we may be able to help them take it to another level.

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jerseybucsfan

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#136 : January 08, 2009, 06:04:55 PM

With Brady, Pats go 16-0. Without Brady, they miss the playoffs. Excuse?
Before last season's surprise Super Bowl run, the Giants had how many winning seasons in their previous four? ONE.  They were 29-35. Excuse?
Eagles have never won a Super Bowl despite winning playoff games in seven different seasons in the last decade. Excuse?
And do you really want to play the Charger card? 14-2 one season and couldn't win a playoff game? Even in beating us this season they still only won eight games. That's one fewer than us.

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Feel Real Good

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#137 : January 08, 2009, 06:12:06 PM

With Brady, Pats go 16-0. Without Brady, they miss the playoffs. Excuse?
Before last season's surprise Super Bowl run, the Giants had how many winning seasons in their previous four? ONE.  They were 29-35. Excuse?
Eagles have never won a Super Bowl despite winning playoff games in seven different seasons in the last decade. Excuse?
And do you really want to play the Charger card? 14-2 one season and couldn't win a playoff game? Even in beating us this season they still only won eight games. That's one fewer than us.
Playoff success is often about the head coach. We know Marty Schottenheimer, Norv Turner, and Andy Reid aren't good playoff coaches. We know Gruden is a good playoff coach, when he has a good team. If you gave Gruden the 2004-2007 Chargers or the 2000-2004 Eagles, he'd have multiple Super Bowls. But this isn't about winning one or two playoff games to get to a Super Bowl; this is about building a consistently good organization that knows how to identify the best players and knows what to do with them, and Gruden's Bucs haven't been as good at that as Schottenheimer and Turner's Chargers and Reid's Eagles. I think that's what this thread is about.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#138 : January 08, 2009, 07:13:53 PM

And it was Feels Real Good who was basically saying Gruden was better than Dungy. And I don't buy that for a lick. I think they are both good coaches and you can make a strong argument either way on which one means more to the Bucs.
I never said such a thing.
My fault it was the TampaBayXXXVVII dude. My bad... I saw it in your post - didnt realize the embedding going on there...

Fishman, you choose negativity because you choose negativity. In reality, we don't know a LOT of elements next season yet:
1. How will the schedule play out? Will the Bucs catch a lot of teams at the right time or the wrong time?
2. How will our health be? At what POINT will we sustain injuries?
3. How will the health be our key opponents?
4. How many of our needs will be filled in the offseason? This is the most unpredictable element. To say we won't fill any or few based on the past is unnecessarily negative. Why? Answer this: What pattern can you conclude from the following: 12-4, 7-9, 5-11, 11-5, 4-12, 9-7, 9-7? What's next in the puzzle? Answer: NO IDEA.
So to be negative is a choice, just as to say we'll win the Super Bowl is a choice. Now granted the division looks a lot tougher now than it did a year ago. But no one took a positive approach to that; they simply belittled the success we had (''big deal, we won a weak division.'') As SD just showed, a team with a weak record that is a 4 seed CAN win playoff games.
As for the Dungy-Gruden argument, it's irrelevant. I don't hate Dungy; I'm just against anyone using Dungy as a weapon against Gruden. Neither is perfect, neither is awful.
You're right - I choose cynicism regarding the 2009 Bucs chances for success. But I dont hate individuals as you previously implied I did for no good reason. You listed plenty of good reasons about being optimistic for next season. I'm sure if you took a few minutes, you could list a few of why not to be optimistic. You are a glass half full kind of guy for the Bucs 2009 chances, me half empty. Truth is we're both rooting for you to be right. But don't be mad at me for being pessimistic. I may disagree with the opinion you hold but I fight to the death you're right to maintain it, even if you are from Jersey.   ;)

"The reality is we came in with a bad salary cap situation and we left with some $50 million under the cap, so it's not like we went out and spent a lot of money on players." JG

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#139 : January 09, 2009, 06:30:55 PM

Don't blame it on the sunshine
Don't blame it on the moonlight
Don't blame it on the good times....
blame it on the Gruden

12thbuc

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#140 : January 09, 2009, 07:34:13 PM

Mark Jones was drafted by the Gaints and 14 of those players were drafted in the 6th and 7th rounds, Josh Johnson and
Cory Boyd aren't busts since they haven't even proven themselves yet, i don't consider Caddy a bust he has just been sidelined alot with injuries and Alex Smith isn't a bust considering he was drafted in the 3rd and hes not horrible. Your list is a failed attempt at taking a shot at Gruden.
im quote myself just because this thread sucks and thread starter gets a F on his homework


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jerseybucsfan

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#141 : January 09, 2009, 07:35:10 PM

That's poetic, MBF. Can you give us that in iambic pentameter?

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InChuckyITrust

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#142 : January 09, 2009, 07:45:52 PM

Andy Reid is a bad playoff coach?  Eagles have made the playoffs 8 times under Andy and won their opening game every time.... And Gruden is a great playoff coach?

The best playoff coaches are the ones with the best teams.  Gruden had a great team in 02.  Reid has had a streaky (to put it nicely) QB his whole time in PHI.  I dont know, I think Andy Reid is a damn fine coach.  I would take him in a heart beat.  Really, I think one of the grading perameters for coaches these days is building and developing talent, where traditionally it has all been about win and loss.  Maybe its because sports is such big business now, have to stay competitive... I dont know just a thought.

Either way. Gruden and Reid are both good coaches based on credentials... I guess that doesnt always translate into W's, or player development.

"there are no medals here for who can stay at the office the longest," said Jagodzinski. "I'm not into that. The guys that brag about working till 2 in the morning, in my opinion, they're just not smart enough. "

18,2,25,13 ... murderers row?

I support coach Calhoun and his salary
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