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BucsPirate

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: October 14, 2006, 08:58:24 AM

Hello everyone, this is the old dubdiz. Something happened with my account in the transfer, so I am just going to go with a new account. The name dubdiz never really fit in anyway.

But for my question. Do you think it would make sense for the Bucs to use the transition tag on Simms? It would mean offering him the average of the top 10 QB salaries of this season, which I would estimate to be somewhere around 7 or 8 million remembering that Breeze was getting 11 million or so when he was franchised last year. The transition tag would allow us to match any offer Simms recieves, which most likely would not be anything very large given how he came out this year. It could allow us to go into next season with good depth at QB, and it could give us the oppurtunity to trade Simms at a higher value. I'll tell you this, if we are in trade negotiations with other teams right now for Simms we should definitely be using the promise of placing the transition tag on him for leverage.

BTownBucFan

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#1 : October 14, 2006, 09:37:48 AM

Simply NO. You can't put that tag on him if you don't think he's the future [which I don't think he is]. There is no way you tie that much money into him. If your thinking of trading him, then you don't think he fits the team, so why tag a guy you don't plan to keep? Trade leverage? No way. It never works out good.

First of all teams see through that stuff and will call your bluff every time and make you cut him due to salary cap implications. That trickery always backfires. At this point his future here looks to be over.

He never did show he has corrected the things that plagued him all through college and it's pretty obvious he doesn't fit the west coast style of offense. I say get what you can for him now.

There is still trade value because teams don't want to get into a bidding war for him after the season and over pay. If a team trades now they have a chance to take a closer look at him [while he's still on the cheap] and will have better luck at signing him much cheaper.  The trade won't be high picks or anything but if we can get a couple high 2nd day picks for a guy that really isn't a good fit, then do it, but no trickery with tags - it's a huge mistake.


mjs020294

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#2 : October 14, 2006, 09:43:14 AM

The transitional tag serves no purpose for the Bucs.  All it lets you do is match any offers he gets in FA, and you have to pay him top ten QB money if he signs it.


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#3 : October 14, 2006, 09:45:13 AM

I would use the franchise tag on Simms. Just because he isnt the QB of the future for our team, doesn't mean that he isnt somewhere else. Chris Simms has a big time arm and ended any speculation about him being tough in the Carolina game. A team like the Lions, Cowboys, Browns, Packers, Jets, Raiders, or could make good use out of this guy. I think we can get a 2nd or 3rd rounder for him in the offseason. In the right system, he could be a very very good QB. QB's are hard to find, and we have a decent one who should have many teams interested in his services in the offseason. If Simms is going to get paid the way he thinks he is, then that team would obviously place high value on him and would be willing to give up quite a bit to get him as well.

mjs020294

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#4 : October 14, 2006, 09:47:09 AM

I would use the tag on Simms. Just because he isnt the QB of the future for our team, doesn't mean that he isnt somewhere else. Chris Simms has a big time arm and ended any speculation about him being tough in the Carolina game. A team like the Lions, Cowboys, Browns, Packers, Jets, Raiders, or could make good use out of this guy. I think we can get a 2nd or 3rd rounder for him in the offseason. In the right system, he could be a very very good QB.

The Transitional Tag does not get you any draft picks, and there is no way they would place a Franchise Tag on him.


alldaway

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#5 : October 14, 2006, 09:50:25 AM

Teams rarely use the transition tag.  It offers you no compensation if the player is lost and if you are willing to pay top ten money for a player you are better off franchising that player and giving them top five money and have some ability to claim some compensation if another team takes him away.

The transition tag has too many downsides and very little upside to use compared to the franchise tag.


mjs020294

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#6 : October 14, 2006, 10:04:29 AM

The transitional Tag is useless, especially if the player isn't really in your long-term plane. 

If they appplied the Franchise Tag to Simms it would cost $8.8 million, and that money is guaranteed if he signs the tender.

It is highly unlikely the Bucs would apply a tag to Simms IMO.



BucsPirate

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#7 : October 14, 2006, 12:15:59 PM

No the transition tag doesn't give you picks if he is signed by someone else, but it gives you the right to match any contract offer which in this case could be very valuable. No one is going to give Simms big money this year. I think a backup contract like what Griese recieved is the best Simms can hope for right now. I'm sure the Bucs would be glad to match that type contract to have a good young QB who knows the system, who can bring competition and depth, and who could have trade value down the road.

mjs020294

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#8 : October 14, 2006, 12:36:49 PM

No the transition tag doesn't give you picks if he is signed by someone else, but it gives you the right to match any contract offer which in this case could be very valuable. No one is going to give Simms big money this year. I think a backup contract like what Griese recieved is the best Simms can hope for right now. I'm sure the Bucs would be glad to match that type contract to have a good young QB who knows the system, who can bring competition and depth, and who could have trade value down the road.

If the Bucs use the transitional tag on Simms they have to pay him top ten QB money if he stays, or match the offers if they are greater.  I think the top ten QB money for next year will be well over $6 million, and if Simms takes the tender that money is guaranteed.

No way the Bucs will risk having to pay Simms over six million next year if Gradkowski progresses.


Uncle Stan

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#9 : October 14, 2006, 01:04:51 PM

Wasn't aware any tag can be put on Simms. He's a UFA not a RFA.


Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981

mjs020294

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#10 : October 14, 2006, 01:06:38 PM

Wasn't aware any tag can be put on Simms. He's a UFA not a RFA.

Here you go Stan:

NFL teams have two other tools at their disposal that provide for greater leverage in securing Free Agents: the Franchise Tag and the Transition Tag.

Each Club can designate one of its players who would otherwise be an UFA or RFA as a Franchise Player each season. Any Club that designates a Franchise Player as "exclusive" shall be the only Club with which that Franchise Player may negotiate or sign a contract. In order to designate an UFA or RFA as a Franchise Player, the team must tender the player a one year contract that is the minimum of the average of the five largest salaries (as of April 15)  for players at the position at which he played the most games during the prior year, or 120% of his prior year salary, whichever is greater. Here is the kicker: if the team elects to name the player "non-exclusive" then the player shall be permitted to negotiate a contract with any Club as if he were an UFA; however, Draft Choice Compensation of TWO first round draft selections shall be awarded to the prior club in the event that he signs with the new club. If the player elects to play with the prior club (the team that designated him with the Franchise tag) and does not negotiate another contract with that team, then the one year salary is guaranteed. Also, if the prior club elects to withdraw the qualifying offer, the player becomes an UFA. The distinction between the "exclusive" versus "non-exclusive" designation is that, for a "non-exclusive" Franchise Player, the team must tender an offer that is the minimum of the average of the five largest prior year salaries for players at the position at which he played the most games during the prior year, or 120% of his prior year salary, whichever is greater.

Each Club can also designate one UFA or RFA as a Transition Player. Additionally, (in the final year of the CBA) each club may, in lieu of designating a Franchise Player, designate an additional Transition Player during the same designation period as the Franchise Player designation period. Whew! What that means is that a team may elect to tag two players with the Transition tag or one Transition Player and one Franchise Player in the final capped year. Any Club that designates a Transition Player shall receive the Rights of First Refusal. In order to designate an UFA or RFA as a Transition Player, the team must tender the player a one year contract for the average of the ten largest prior year salaries for players at the position at which he played the most games during the prior year, or 120% of his prior year salary, whichever is greater.

 


http://www.askthecommish.com/freeagency/



alldaway

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#11 : October 14, 2006, 01:55:17 PM

No the transition tag doesn't give you picks if he is signed by someone else, but it gives you the right to match any contract offer which in this case could be very valuable. No one is going to give Simms big money this year. I think a backup contract like what Griese recieved is the best Simms can hope for right now. I'm sure the Bucs would be glad to match that type contract to have a good young QB who knows the system, who can bring competition and depth, and who could have trade value down the road.

Teams are not stupid.  They know you can match that is why they use poison pills.  Like I said before the franchise tag is superior than the transition tag.  The transition tag is rarely used as it has too many downsides and very little upside.

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#12 : October 14, 2006, 05:06:42 PM

I think we've seen enough of the guy to know we'd be better off without him.

corruptpirate

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#13 : October 14, 2006, 06:49:06 PM

Sadly, Simms is going to leave tampa without the Bucs getting any compensation for it. I don't think a team is gonna give up a draft pick for him right now just to get out of a Bidding war for Simm's sevices. Tuesday's the deadline and Simm's season is still up in the air.

TBayJJ

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#14 : October 14, 2006, 09:19:55 PM

Yeah, It depends I mean if you are going to do that, you need him to step up in big situations. Which I don't think that he is the answer, just trade him or let him go.
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