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dbtb135

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#15 : January 16, 2007, 01:58:30 AM

And what have you got to say about the other teams?

I suggest you ask their fans. I'm concerned about the Buccaneers.

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#16 : January 16, 2007, 08:48:24 AM

We're also the only team with 3 losing seasons in there.

We're also the team with the worst record past our SB year, and even with it we're only a game ahead of NO. It's just telling of the situation; no one had a problem with Gruden's 1st year. He did great. It's everything past then that has gotten on people's nerves. In that breakdown, and in a lot of people's minds, he's still living off that one great year.

And what have you got to say about the other teams?

Bucfan9720

You present a good arguement but is not that solid as it appears.

As for the other teams I am a Bucs fans but I will answer your question.

Saints - Jim Haslett?  Fired.  Sean Peyton replaced Haslett.

Falcons - Dan Reeves? Gone. Replaced by Mora.   Jim Mora? Fired.  Petrino is replacing Mora.

Panthers- John Fox - Currently on the hot seat and may be fired.

Now is it fair? No.  Can teams be more patient with coaches due to parity as the arguement you presented? Sure.

Because of parity though where everyone has a chance to be great one year and poor another year you need to find a coach that can rise above that.  Right now Gruden is question mark in that category.   You might say there are not many coaches in the league that can win consistently in parity.  This is true.  You may also say that it is not realistic to be able to stumble upon a coach like that blindly? Maybe.  But you will not know until you try!  Gruden is never the Bucs head coach if the Bucs ownership does not try.

So either the Bucs ownership can go the Rooney route or they can go the Glazer route.  Considering the Glazers own the Bucs they will not hesitate to pull the trigger on a coach that they feel would be better as they have shown in the past. Unless they want to turn Rooney on all of us all of sudden.   Just my two cents. ;)


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#17 : January 16, 2007, 09:35:56 AM

Basically it looks like the competition is narrowed down to 3 other teams trying to make the Bucs history under Gruden look better than it is. We have as many divison championships as top 5 draft picks.

keeponbucn

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#18 : January 16, 2007, 09:36:33 AM

2002
Tampa Bay 12-4, NFC South Championship
Atlanta 9-7
New Orleans 9-7
Carolina 7-9

2003
Carolina 11-5, NFC South Championship
New Orleans 8-8
Tampa Bay 7-9
Atlanta 5-11

2004
Atlanta 11-5, NFC South Championship
New Orleans 8-8
Carolina 7-9
Tampa Bay 5-11

2005
Tampa Bay 11-5, NFC South Championship
Carolina 11-5
Atlanta 8-8
New Orleans 3-13

2006
New Orleans 10-6, NFC South Championship
Carolina 8-8
Atlanta 7-9
Tampa Bay 4-12

Overall records
Tampa Bay 39-41
Carolina 44-37
Atlanta 40-40
New Orleans 38-42

Tampa Bay has two division titles, two playoff appearances, and a SB victory.
Carolina has one division title and two playoff appearances.
Atlanta has one division title and two playoff appearances.
New Orleans has one division title, one playoff appearance, and is currently up for the NFCCG.

Were the only team with more than one division title and to have won a Super Bowl, and no team in the NFC South has more than two playoff appearances since the realignment.

Just saying.




I'm a big Gruden supporter but looking at others records over the past 5 seasons and comparing to the Bucs to make us feel better isn't the way to go, IMO. The Glazers will only look at the Bucs situation, not scan the NFC South over the past 5 years and draw a conclusion.

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#19 : January 16, 2007, 09:50:50 AM

Very interesting stats.  Thank you for those. IMHO i think the Glazers are going to become the Rooneys.  It's more in keeping with their cultural land business model.  I think they are like Warren Buffett.  All things being equal, I believe they like to stick to their people.  If you listen to both Allen and Gruden and many members of the team, they rave and praise the Glazers.  Those behind the scene owners, my guess, prefer to work with the people they picked and give them room to grow and learn from errors. 




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#20 : January 16, 2007, 11:21:52 AM

I am still a big supporter of GRuden, and I think with more stability in the finance department, some sorely needed draft picks, and less injuries from key players, he is still the most capable coach (Sean Peyton is still a rook, so he gets a pass this year) in the NFC South.  Peyton has a helluva lot of talent to work with, the team actually has a home, and I will reserve judgement on him until next year passes.

I think Gruden will do good things nextyear, and I am already anxious for the Sundays in the fall...

I agree, but this whole scenario is predicated on our young players really having a growth spurt in terms of production next year.  This year will let us know alot about the players we've been stockpiling.  Who is Simms?  Who is Alex Smith?  Who is Caddilac?  Are these guys good players? :-*



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#21 : January 16, 2007, 11:27:38 AM

BucsFan9720, you can't say anything positive in reference to Gruden around here or else you'll get crucified.

1sparkybuc

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#22 : January 16, 2007, 02:46:38 PM

Gruden is not responsible for the lack of depth and talent on this team over the last five years.  Rich McKay and the Glazers themselves share in that stat on this team. Key injuries were the main cause of the three losing seasons. When the team stayed relatively healthy, Gruden won the division. This offseason will be THE FIRST in Gruden's tenure in which the team will be competitive in free agency. It's only fair to see what he can do when he has some access to real talent.

No other team in our division has a Lombardi, and New Orleans and Atlanta had a ten year head start. Carolina didn't have to start a team with every other team's rejects. Our coach has proven he can win the big one. The others are still trying.

Bucs33

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#23 : January 16, 2007, 02:49:57 PM

Yeah and look

Falcons fired their coach and the Saints fired their coach over that span, and John fox was new in the 2002 season too....



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#24 : January 16, 2007, 03:13:49 PM

Yeah and look

Falcons fired their coach and the Saints fired their coach over that span, and John fox was new in the 2002 season too....
In all fairness...Jim Mora Jr. and Jim Haslett are nowhere close to being on the same level with Gruden, both were in their first coaching jobs, and most of the roster decisions were quite questionable (Brooks as starting QB, Vick, ect.) not to mention the (SIGH) draft picks that they had compared to ours, and payroll.

HereComesDaBoom

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#25 : January 16, 2007, 04:21:32 PM

Only patience will lead this organization to achieve greatness. Ala Cowboys of the 80's and Patriots of today. With constant coaching changes you get varied results over and over again. Rince and repeat.  Coach will finally have some funds and less cap stress over his head to know they can get an Ian Gold or Lance Briggs. I know Ian is no longer available but man I wish he was still here.

I will trade numerous losing seasons to get a great run @ multiple titles. This team can do that but it takes an entire coaching staff to reach that result. I'm in no way expecting this team to be above .500 every year because other teams are working just as hard to get to the top. Great info provided.

bOOm

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#26 : January 16, 2007, 04:27:04 PM

Man, that sig...what were you saying dude?


BucFan9720

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#27 : January 17, 2007, 04:32:15 PM

I'm mainly trying point out the amount of parody in our division and how things turn around awfully quick in this league.

bucs1

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#28 : January 17, 2007, 08:13:53 PM

2002
Tampa Bay 12-4, NFC South Championship
Atlanta 9-7
New Orleans 9-7
Carolina 7-9

2003
Carolina 11-5, NFC South Championship
New Orleans 8-8
Tampa Bay 7-9
Atlanta 5-11

2004
Atlanta 11-5, NFC South Championship
New Orleans 8-8
Carolina 7-9
Tampa Bay 5-11

2005
Tampa Bay 11-5, NFC South Championship
Carolina 11-5
Atlanta 8-8
New Orleans 3-13

2006
New Orleans 10-6, NFC South Championship
Carolina 8-8
Atlanta 7-9
Tampa Bay 4-12

Overall records
Tampa Bay 39-41
Carolina 44-37
Atlanta 40-40
New Orleans 38-42

Tampa Bay has two division titles, two playoff appearances, and a SB victory.
Carolina has one division title and two playoff appearances.
Atlanta has one division title and two playoff appearances.
New Orleans has one division title, one playoff appearance, and is currently up for the NFCCG.

Were the only team with more than one division title and to have won a Super Bowl, and no team in the NFC South has more than two playoff appearances since the realignment.

Just saying.


Good point.



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#29 : January 20, 2007, 02:55:41 PM

Notice that the last place team always wins the division the following year. Bucs are up next.

I think that stat makes everyone think that anything less than a playoff spot for the Bucs is a failure.
But really, if Gruden gets us 8 wins next year even without a playoff, I think he's done a decent job.

The biggest change will be the schedule this year. Before the season started, I said that this team would find out what it was made of and the importance of execution.  There were some key injuries. Defense got off to a bad start & Sim was playing injured, finally had to go on IR, same with BK. Brooks lost a step and was playing as if he was injured. Losing two coaches didn't help either.

On the other side of the ball,  a rookie QB and the dropped passes hurt the running game. I think another big thing, though there hasn't been much talk about it, was Beunnings' and Josephs' injuries. If they had been healthy, I really think there wouldn't be any of the gripes we're now hearing about the line. Neither one of those guys seemed to come back that well and then Dan blew his knee out.

So, looking back, I'd have to say it was the schedule, lack of execution and injuries that killed the season.
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