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escobar

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#30 : January 20, 2009, 10:32:12 PM

I say bring him back. If we want to become a more physical football team you don't start by getting rid of your most physical offensive player. Plus, with Gruden gone Clayton will have no excuses this season. Attempt to bring him back as our 3rd/4th wideout and let's see what he can do under Raheem and new motivation. If he doesn't take the offer, fine, but I think it would be dumb to not at least make an attempt.

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#31 : January 20, 2009, 10:33:53 PM

I agree...give him a short contract..a show me what you got contract like Antonio was given

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We can rebuild him..we have the technology

jerseybucsfan

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#32 : January 20, 2009, 10:36:30 PM

I wouldn't pay him one cent. Like I said, I'm giving away my Michael Clayton jersey. I WAS a big fan once upon a time. But he CHOSE not to be a leader. Some guys probably have a good case against Gruden for not getting more of a shot at different times (Galloway last season, maybe McCown, maybe Thomas Jones if you really want to second guess). But Clayton simply dropped the ball OFTEN. Garcia threw it behind him often, which cut down on his chances too. But his YAC since 2004 is not what you would have hoped from a first-round receiver.
To me he represents one of the biggest elements of Gruden's failure. He is in many ways the Anti-Caddy and I'd want NO part of him.

In Verner We Trust

jerseybucsfan

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#33 : January 20, 2009, 10:44:21 PM

Some might say this stance is pro Gruden or backing your old coach. But it really says a lot about a guy's character when they take what he did to such an extreme. He really put ALL of his failures on Gruden. Given what we witnessed, unless you're a biased Gruden hater who doesn't want to listen, that just doesn't ring true.
Was Gruden innocent? No. Did he lack people skills and clash with certain guys? Obviously. But we're not talking about the coordinator of an AA meeting or a kindergarten teacher. Clayton took a lot of money from this organization to do a job. He clearly wasn't in shape for a few years, didn't do what was necessary to take his game to another level and then compounded it by putting all the blame on another person.
I'm not sure how that helps a team seeking a championship.

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sammy8887

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#34 : January 20, 2009, 10:45:22 PM

I wouldn't pay him one cent. Like I said, I'm giving away my Michael Clayton jersey. I WAS a big fan once upon a time. But he CHOSE not to be a leader. Some guys probably have a good case against Gruden for not getting more of a shot at different times (Galloway last season, maybe McCown, maybe Thomas Jones if you really want to second guess).

Jersey, another thought though may be that he went out to the front of the firing squad to represent all those players that apparently gave Gruden low marks as their HC...

I honestly don't see Clayton's individual beef with Gruden...he became a starter again this year and got back on the radar...

If he's speaking for Garcia, McCown, Galloway, etc. and those that feel "manipulated" by Gruden, there won't be any problem with him returning to a new staff next year...

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#35 : January 20, 2009, 10:47:07 PM

See, I bring him back after telling him it's time to prove that it was Gruden that was the problem and not him.  I don't personally think that, but it may motivate the kid.

escobar

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#36 : January 20, 2009, 10:50:56 PM

Some might say this stance is pro Gruden or backing your old coach. But it really says a lot about a guy's character when they take what he did to such an extreme. He really put ALL of his failures on Gruden. Given what we witnessed, unless you're a biased Gruden hater who doesn't want to listen, that just doesn't ring true.
Was Gruden innocent? No. Did he lack people skills and clash with certain guys? Obviously. But we're not talking about the coordinator of an AA meeting or a kindergarten teacher. Clayton took a lot of money from this organization to do a job. He clearly wasn't in shape for a few years, didn't do what was necessary to take his game to another level and then compounded it by putting all the blame on another person.
I'm not sure how that helps a team seeking a championship.


This all may be true, however with the position we are in (cheap owners...yes i know the practice facility blah blah), we are going to need some players to stick around. Hell, you can't replace the entire front office AND all of your players. Considering it's highly unlikely we go on a spending spree we might have to rely on players such as Clayton, who had a problem with Gruden, regaining their passion for the game and performing the way we always expected them too. I hate selfish players just as much as anyone else, but IMO save for Brooks and a few others they are ALL selfish.

jerseybucsfan

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#37 : January 20, 2009, 10:52:19 PM

Sorry, I don't reward that type of behavior. You're saying he was a leader in doing that? I think not. That type of behavior is not synonymous with leadership. It's cancerous. The guy was already fired. What positive purpose did it serve? None. When you handle things with class, then you can close the chapter and move on positively. When you burn bridges, point fingers, make excuses, sew hate, you come across as a loser.
And if he needed this to motivate himself then it also means he didn't do his job when we NEEDED him to do it before. If he's already in the business of not giving his all when his feelings are hurt or he has a conflict with the coach, then he knows he can turn back to that mentality if it happens with Raheem.
I don't do that to my new coach. I bring in WINNERS not whiners.

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jerseybucsfan

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#38 : January 20, 2009, 10:53:33 PM

I'd put Garcia and Clayton at the top of my list that should NOT be brought back for mental-psychological reasons. You need to change the talent AND the culture.

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sammy8887

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#39 : January 20, 2009, 10:54:35 PM

This is the only video of which I've listened to re: Clayton:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcsouth/0-7-103/Video--WR-Michael-Clayton-on-Gruden.html

It seemed fairly benign to me...Is there worse somewhere?

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#40 : January 20, 2009, 10:56:17 PM

The only time Clayton was open was on blown coverage or when his defender left to go tackle the scrambling Garcia.

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#41 : January 20, 2009, 11:20:38 PM

I don't think Clayton is coming back.

Based on how some of these teams overpay for average players in free agency, I think some team will give him WAY more than what he's worth.

And the Bucs will laugh and move on...


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#42 : January 20, 2009, 11:24:19 PM

Get Clayton outta the locker-room.  The leaders are not going to respect his big mouth, no playin' sel;f anyway.

He blames Gruden for FOUR SEASONS of patheticness.  Funny.


Snook

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#43 : January 20, 2009, 11:27:59 PM

Get Clayton outta the locker-room.  The leaders are not going to respect his big mouth, no playin' sel;f anyway.

He blames Gruden for FOUR SEASONS of patheticness.  Funny.

Exactly.  Take Bryant for instance.  He could've blamed Parcells for the demise of his career.  But after sitting out a year, what did he do?

He shut his mouth and played football.  Remember, it was a couple weeks before AB even talked to the press after arriving in Tampa.

Clayton is a **CENSORED**.  He couldn't get on the radio fast enough when they canned Gruden.

I've watched too many footballs bounce off his chest to hear him complain.


jerseybucsfan

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#44 : January 20, 2009, 11:35:20 PM

I went back and listened to his interview again. He's all over the place, mixing subject matters to come to a single conclusion. It was Gruden's lack of respect that caused him to fail? That caused the team to fail? I think you'd be hardpressed to think that at 9-3. So it becomes revisionist to take the heat off himself.
I think you can criticize Gruden for his offensive schemes, I think not playing McCown instead of Griese was dumb and not having Galloway in there at the end didn't work well. But if Garcia was checking down and didn't find an open Clayton, how is it Gruden's fault? Or if he overthrew an open receiver? Or if he hit him on the numbers and he dropped it?
I don't think the notion of Gruden's dismissal had anything to do with where the team was in Carolina nor in Atlanta. I think it became possible come SD week and certainly once they lost that game too. But I think if you're a player and you hated Gruden to begin with and were ready to use him as an excuse at season's START, you probably didn't see the light at the end of the tunnel until the Oakland game. Even then, the Bucs had a 10-point lead late and what happened to Sabby and to Caddy had ZERO to do with morale or respect. Did Allen commit the pass interference because of a lack of respect? This is all a huge REACH by someone who never took responsibility for his actions and didn't want to be seen as one of the causes for the downfall of the Bucs as he came in only two seasons after a championship.

In Verner We Trust
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