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CurtR1995

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#15 : January 22, 2009, 08:24:25 PM

Although he earned his firing, because of 2002, the trade to bring Gruden with worth every penny and draft pick.  

As for the thread title, I don't care if they liked him, I care if they respect him.   I just don't see a lot of players falling into that category.    

jerseybucsfan

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#16 : January 22, 2009, 11:17:18 PM

Here's the thing. Why, outside of PR, are we NOT hearing those other voices? Reason: They waited for this moment for a long time.
Before you ask yourself the question about what players liked him, ask yourself the question how many WRITERS like(d) him.
If you answer a small percentage, then perhaps you understand the mechanisms involved here.
They'll slam his legacy into the ground as much as they can. They have that power and they'll abuse it as if he was the WORST guy in the world.
And the sad part is that many of you will lap it up. They play to your darkside.
That doesn't mean he was a saint. But they won't tell you the other stuff. This story was written a long time ago.

In Verner We Trust

TURBO

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#17 : January 22, 2009, 11:32:20 PM

Gonna say it again. 1st of all. if all players like the coach, he is a pushover. When a coach leaves or gets fired, all the below ave players come out and blame him. The players lack of ability had to be someones fault. Why not blame the coach. Easy target. A coach is not supposed to be liked by everyone. Ask NE. Ask the Giants. Look at Tiki and Strahan. Unfortunate these so called players don't just shut up and play. Who really cares about thier opinion of the coach.

QFT!


The White Tiger

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#18 : January 23, 2009, 01:12:02 AM

Gonna say it again. 1st of all. if all players like the coach, he is a pushover. When a coach leaves or gets fired, all the below ave players come out and blame him. The players lack of ability had to be someones fault. Why not blame the coach. Easy target. A coach is not supposed to be liked by everyone. Ask NE. Ask the Giants. Look at Tiki and Strahan. Unfortunate these so called players don't just shut up and play. Who really cares about thier opinion of the coach.

QFT!

I second that emotion.

A former Army Sergeant friend offered me some advice when I first took over as a manager :

"...**CENSORED**in' troops are happy troops..." Give them something to do, set the expectation from the beginning and then make them do it - well - it doesn't matter what they say, it matters what they achieve. And there's enough hardware laying around OBP to show what the players achieved under Gruden. That's why guys like Brooks, Barber and Ike don't do it - they know many great players go entire careers without getting what they got because of Gruden.

I don't disagree with the Bucs for making this move - the results weren't bad, but lately they just weren't that good and the returns seemed ever diminishing. I don't know if that is due to a lack of support from management - or just because Jon needed to adjust but instead became like Dungy - stubborn and intractable? I just know he's gone.

And really, I don't really care what malcontents say when they huddle up with their buddies at the Trib or the Times - where writers poke the little stooges with candy so they'll rat on their boss - I just know Jon Gruden was the only coach to EVER win an NFC Championship and Superbowl in Tampa. For that you only need to say two things - "thanks" and "goodbye".

And P.S. - it NEVER matters what a Kicker says, I can't believe someone actually posted that.

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ufojoe

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#19 : January 23, 2009, 01:37:02 AM

Just another idiot kicker who got liquored up and ran his mouth off.


The White Tiger

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#20 : January 23, 2009, 02:26:21 AM

QFT !

What's up joe!?

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UnderwearGnome

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#21 : January 23, 2009, 08:27:57 AM

Gonna say it again. 1st of all. if all players like the coach, he is a pushover. When a coach leaves or gets fired, all the below ave players come out and blame him. The players lack of ability had to be someones fault. Why not blame the coach. Easy target. A coach is not supposed to be liked by everyone. Ask NE. Ask the Giants. Look at Tiki and Strahan. Unfortunate these so called players don't just shut up and play. Who really cares about thier opinion of the coach.

And the coaches lack of ability has to be someone's fault, i.e. "injuries"


Uncle Stan

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#22 : January 23, 2009, 08:34:55 AM

For those that did, you probably wouldn't hear much about it from the media. It wouldn't support their agenda.

Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981

JC510

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#23 : January 23, 2009, 09:33:28 AM

Coaches don't have a shelf life. Losing and treating your players like garbage does. And being obsessed with this guy doesn't help.

http://replay-re-cutter.nfl.com/clip.aspx?key=AE17D854C2745E07&ctx=medialist&type=image

I'm sitting there at 20-7, look to my dad and say "If we don't throw another pass the rest of the game it's an automatic win." 2 Griese passes later it's 21-20.

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#24 : January 23, 2009, 01:19:45 PM

Players don't like losing.   If you're a coach and you lose you'll soon find out what your players think of  you.   

Gruden didn't hire an offensive coordinator who could get the job done.   Sound familiar??
Gruden, like Dungy, was victimized by his own coaching philosophy.   Plain and simple.....you gotta win son or you're done.

4bucs

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#25 : January 23, 2009, 03:52:40 PM

BROOKS WAS ON  620 this morning and said the same thing Scott said ...there was 3 or 4 who didn't care for their treatment....lol ...good thing Parcells didn't come here...Clayton would have been history 2 years ago ;D ;D

Badabing

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#26 : January 23, 2009, 04:26:14 PM

Who knows?  I sure liked him for the Super Bowl and could care less what the players think.

They will never take that SB away from him

jerseybucsfan

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#27 : January 23, 2009, 04:35:51 PM

Some try though Badabing. That's the purpose of saying he won with someone else's thing, the implication that he really didn't do anything.
It's like new money vs. inherited money.
I think Gruden's coaching here was uneven; the Bucs didn't react well to adversity throughout his regime  (with the exception of 2002 and to a degree 2005). I think the last two years were the first two universely viewed as underachievement though (2003 was legitimately damaged by injuries; 2004 involved bad FA decisions and 2006 was purely on the injury front). However, for all the injuries the last two seasons, it's tough to argue we should NOT have won at least one more game.
So it's a good time for change, like him or not.

In Verner We Trust

Pick6

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#28 : January 23, 2009, 04:52:20 PM

Players don't like losing.   If you're a coach and you lose you'll soon find out what your players think of  you.   

Gruden didn't hire an offensive coordinator who could get the job done.   Sound familiar??
Gruden, like Dungy, was victimized by his own coaching philosophy.   Plain and simple.....you gotta win son or you're done.

exactly....people forget that bucs fans were just as tired of dungy's "antics" (or lack thereof) as the team stagnated, and it's the same with gruden...they stayed commited to their coaching style and beliefs, and that only works when you are winning enough games to justify your approach....

the unfortunate thing is that gruden was a really young coach and he had a chance to evolveimprove as a coach and stay fresh....he was close to doing it in 2005 and a little bit last year, but this season he was more hardheaded and secretive then ever....i think the lack of young assistants on offense was a problem too - when you have young guys they are motivated and as they turn over that contributes to never getting stale...think about the quality and turnover on defense and how that's helped the guys on that side of the ball stay tuned....ronde has been working under monte his whole career but has gotten input and perspectives on his game from herm, tomlin, raheem, and some scrub, so he never gets sick of the big boss

gruden needs to take a cue from the staff he was on in green bay and bring some kids along for the ride next time around, it will buffer his lesser personality traits, give him a sense of purpose as a mentor, and keep a stream of fresh messengers between him and his players
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