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OpTiOnMaStA

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#15 : January 27, 2009, 09:49:45 PM

Who said anything inhumane? I guess that's sort of a rhetorical question since I said if he didn't pay his bills it was his own fault.

Although I have the utmost respect for anyone who has, does, or will serve the country his military service doesn't have any place in this story. How would you feel if it didn't say he was a WWII vet? Also, I am unaware of any statute that says if you served in WWII you don't have to pay your electric bill.

If the guy didn't pay his electric bills he is at fault. If he was incapable then somebody else should have been picking up the slack for him. If he had nobody else, I will say the city needs to step in. With only $1,000 in unpaid bills, though, it would seem highly unlikely to get to that point. Somebody has either been taking care of his bills or he has been doing it himself.

If there was a mechanical issue it's the city and electric company's issue and they should fear the repercussion from this.

There are also 1,000 extraneous circumstances that could have made this happen none of which I will get into nor have to do with this gentleman's military record.

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#16 : January 27, 2009, 10:03:07 PM

Jesus...

a 93 year old Veteran killed his daughter and shot somone else about a month ago in Portland... should he get off because hes old?

The guy I guess had cash on him...

The guy obviously shouldnt have lived by himself, if he couldnt pick the phone up to call his family or the heat company, he cant take care of himself. Thus I put the blame on the family. Good families step in e**CENSORED**ally at that age.


JavaBuc

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#17 : January 27, 2009, 10:06:19 PM

He likely had no living family.

ufojoe

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#18 : January 27, 2009, 10:36:01 PM

Who said anything inhumane? I guess that's sort of a rhetorical question since I said if he didn't pay his bills it was his own fault.

It's just a ridiculous thing to say if you actually read what happened in this case.

It's the fault of the electric company. An elderly person should never have their power turned off if it's going to put their life at risk. That should be simple for all of you to understand no matter how young you are. There are other ways to deal with an unpaid bill in the dead of winter.

The future of this country is in the hands of our youth. And thats REALLY scary. Thankfully, we have other young adults who act and think like human beings should.

Is this easy enough to comprehend?

http://theboard.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/about-that-93-year-old-man-who-froze-to-death

About That 93-Year-Old Man Who Froze to Death
By THE EDITORIAL BOARD

Outrage is growing in Michigan — and nationally — over the death of Marvin Schur, 93. Mr. Schur froze to death in his home after the municipal power company restricted his electricity because of an unpaid bill.

The Associated Press reported that Mr. Schur died of hypothermia — and that the medical examiner called it a slow, painful death. The company that cut the power is owned by Bay City, Michigan.

Mr. Schur reportedly owed more than $1,000. The power company had installed a “limiter” to restrict his use of power, and Mr. Schur had apparently reached the limit.

According to one local news account, a neighbor says a utility bill was found on Mr. Schur’s kitchen table with a large amount of money attached, indicating that he wanted to pay the bill.


Bay City manager Robert Bellerman told the Associated Press that the city would review its policies, but he did not believe it did anything wrong.  (Idiot!)

That’s possible, but on the facts that have come out so far, we strongly doubt it. Power companies need to have better procedures in place than Bay City seems to have had to ensure that elderly, and other special-needs, customers are not left to freeze to death.

We agree with a spokesman for the Attorney General, who said: “Situations like this should be avoidable.”


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#19 : January 27, 2009, 11:07:45 PM

How does a bill get to a 1K? Thats a lot.

I agree though something needs to be done to help the elderly on stuff like this.


OpTiOnMaStA

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#20 : January 27, 2009, 11:35:58 PM

Who said anything inhumane? I guess that's sort of a rhetorical question since I said if he didn't pay his bills it was his own fault.

It's just a ridiculous thing to say if you actually read what happened in this case.

It's the fault of the electric company. An elderly person should never have their power turned off if it's going to put their life at risk. That should be simple for all of you to understand no matter how young you are. There are other ways to deal with an unpaid bill in the dead of winter.

The future of this country is in the hands of our youth. And thats REALLY scary. Thankfully, we have other young adults who act and think like human beings should.

Is this easy enough to comprehend?

http://theboard.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/about-that-93-year-old-man-who-froze-to-death

About That 93-Year-Old Man Who Froze to Death
By THE EDITORIAL BOARD

Outrage is growing in Michigan — and nationally — over the death of Marvin Schur, 93. Mr. Schur froze to death in his home after the municipal power company restricted his electricity because of an unpaid bill.

The Associated Press reported that Mr. Schur died of hypothermia — and that the medical examiner called it a slow, painful death. The company that cut the power is owned by Bay City, Michigan.

Mr. Schur reportedly owed more than $1,000. The power company had installed a “limiter” to restrict his use of power, and Mr. Schur had apparently reached the limit.

According to one local news account, a neighbor says a utility bill was found on Mr. Schur’s kitchen table with a large amount of money attached, indicating that he wanted to pay the bill.


Bay City manager Robert Bellerman told the Associated Press that the city would review its policies, but he did not believe it did anything wrong.  (Idiot!)

That’s possible, but on the facts that have come out so far, we strongly doubt it. Power companies need to have better procedures in place than Bay City seems to have had to ensure that elderly, and other special-needs, customers are not left to freeze to death.

We agree with a spokesman for the Attorney General, who said: “Situations like this should be avoidable.”



I don't think it's quite as simple as you are making it out to be. All too often these news articles don't give enough facts to make a real judgment as to who is at fault. I simply said if he didn't pay his bill, and $1,000 seems like a strange amount of time for a heat bill to not be paid, you can't blame the electric company.

Now, about this limiter. I don't know how that works. Maybe I AM JUST TOO YOUNG as you may say. I have already stated that if there was a malfunction with the device it's the city's fault.

Considering what you put in bold, though, it sounds like this gentleman went OVER his limit. Who knows whose fault it is at that point. It could be the limit is set way too low for him or it could be that he exceeded the limit for numerous other reasons. Maybe he insisted on keeping all his lights on full blast all day long. Maybe his Christmas lights lit up the neighborhood. Maybe he had 75 TVs he watched constantly because he was paranoid and had security cameras everywhere. Maybe he had them to watch Sunday Ticket. Who knows?

I'm not disagreeing that on a human level this is sad but be realistic: you don't pay the bills or have a system by which they are paid and bad things happen. Bottom line is we don't know the whole story and you way over-simplified it.

Finally, if you're worried about me being a part of the country's future you should see some of my contemporaries.

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#21 : January 27, 2009, 11:36:26 PM

1K is alot?   My parents electric bill is 400 a month.

OpTiOnMaStA

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#22 : January 27, 2009, 11:40:24 PM

Which goes to show this had been going on for a small amount of time. Not one month but not six either. That could lead to a lot of curiosity about how he was getting the bill paid and whose fault this really is.

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#23 : January 27, 2009, 11:48:05 PM

I don't think it's quite as simple as you are making it out to be. All too often these news articles don't give enough facts to make a real judgment as to who is at fault. I simply said if he didn't pay his bill, and $1,000 seems like a strange amount of time for a heat bill to not be paid, you can't blame the electric company.

Now, about this limiter. I don't know how that works. Maybe I AM JUST TOO YOUNG as you may say. I have already stated that if there was a malfunction with the device it's the city's fault.

Considering what you put in bold, though, it sounds like this gentleman went OVER his limit. Who knows whose fault it is at that point. It could be the limit is set way too low for him or it could be that he exceeded the limit for numerous other reasons. Maybe he insisted on keeping all his lights on full blast all day long. Maybe his Christmas lights lit up the neighborhood. Maybe he had 75 TVs he watched constantly because he was paranoid and had security cameras everywhere. Maybe he had them to watch Sunday Ticket. Who knows?

I'm not disagreeing that on a human level this is sad but be realistic: you don't pay the bills or have a system by which they are paid and bad things happen. Bottom line is we don't know the whole story and you way over-simplified it.

Finally, if you're worried about me being a part of the country's future you should see some of my contemporaries.

As far as why this happened, there's not much more to this story than what you have read. It IS very simple and trying to make up lots of "what ifs" doesn't change the fact that the man is dead because of the system that is in place with that utility company. The limiter never should have been put on his house.

I don't care if he kept a million Xmas lights on his house. You don't have a system that turns off the power on somebody if it's going to put them in harm's way and possibly kill them. Is that really so hard for you to comprehend?

I don't like when others use the age thing but I couldn't help myself here because it seems like a lot of the younger posters don't have common sense when it comes to issues like this.


ufojoe

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#24 : January 27, 2009, 11:48:36 PM

1K is alot?   My parents electric bill is 400 a month.

Yep. In some states, it can be a lot more than that.

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#25 : January 27, 2009, 11:54:07 PM

Whoever said that the power companies should not turn off the power in the winter for people who cannot afford it is 100% right. I think it should be a crime to turn off utilities that are essential to life such as water,power,etc. during harsh climates in that season. Granted I feel people will just milk the system if they put that into place. Its really a No Win situation for both sides. It takes a bad hit to the Power Companies regarding PR and the other fact is a man who served his country with honor and dignity is dead because he froze from no heating.


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#26 : January 27, 2009, 11:55:48 PM

I don't think it's quite as simple as you are making it out to be. All too often these news articles don't give enough facts to make a real judgment as to who is at fault. I simply said if he didn't pay his bill, and $1,000 seems like a strange amount of time for a heat bill to not be paid, you can't blame the electric company.

Now, about this limiter. I don't know how that works. Maybe I AM JUST TOO YOUNG as you may say. I have already stated that if there was a malfunction with the device it's the city's fault.

Considering what you put in bold, though, it sounds like this gentleman went OVER his limit. Who knows whose fault it is at that point. It could be the limit is set way too low for him or it could be that he exceeded the limit for numerous other reasons. Maybe he insisted on keeping all his lights on full blast all day long. Maybe his Christmas lights lit up the neighborhood. Maybe he had 75 TVs he watched constantly because he was paranoid and had security cameras everywhere. Maybe he had them to watch Sunday Ticket. Who knows?

I'm not disagreeing that on a human level this is sad but be realistic: you don't pay the bills or have a system by which they are paid and bad things happen. Bottom line is we don't know the whole story and you way over-simplified it.

Finally, if you're worried about me being a part of the country's future you should see some of my contemporaries.

As far as why this happened, there's not much more to this story than what you have read. It IS very simple and trying to make up lots of "what ifs" doesn't change the fact that the man is dead because of the system that is in place with that utility company. The limiter never should have been put on his house.

I don't care if he kept a million Xmas lights on his house. You don't have a system that turns off the power on somebody if it's going to put them in harm's way and possibly kill them. Is that really so hard for you to comprehend?

I don't like when others use the age thing but I couldn't help myself here because it seems like a lot of the younger posters don't have common sense when it comes to issues like this.



So what you are saying is assuming the city had a system which was completely manageable and allowed residents like him a completely reasonable amount of power (despite unpaid bills) and it was placed on as a consequence for the unpaid bills and makes him aware of such a quota and then he goes over it's their fault he dies as a result?

Remember, it's a completely reasonable amount of power. Even say a generous amount of power. Then what? I'm just trying to gauge what you're thinking.

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#27 : January 28, 2009, 12:02:10 AM


Gauge this...

(BTW, he was four months behind on his bill)

http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=news/local&id=6627346

City makes changes following 93-year-old man's death

By Rebecca Trylch

BAY CITY (WJRT) -- (01/27/09)--Changes are happening at the Bay City Electric Light and Power company after a 93-year-old man froze to death in his own home.

Marvin Schur was found dead on Jan. 17 at his South Chilson Avenue home.

His body was discovered four days after the city's electric company placed a device on his meter limiting the amount of electricity he could use.

Schur was four months behind on his bill.

The head of Bay City Electric Light and Power says as of early Tuesday afternoon, all the limiters across the city have been removed.

The city manager also says shutoffs have also been temporarily stopped.


Those two actions are in response to the death of Schur, who lived in his Bay City home for decades.

Schur had a limiter device installed on his electric meter. It was supposed to limit the amount of electricity he could use because he was behind on his bill.

But that device can be "tripped" and has to be reset, just like a breaker at your home. Schur's limiter did just that.

City officials say they believe Schur didn't know the device was installed because when utility workers installed the device, they left a note on his door and did not make contact with him, as is standard practice.

However, in light of Schur's death, that's just one of the many policies under review right now.

"It is a tragic situation. We feel it. We're human. We have emotions," said City Manager Robert Belleman.

"We're trying to do what's right. I can't undo what happened to Mr. Schur. We are doing -- or taking the steps -- to effectuate change so that it will not happen again."

And while there currently isn't any law restricting power companies from turning off power to the elderly or to other people who have trouble paying their bills, there is help out there.


Help - http://region7aaa.org


OpTiOnMaStA

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#28 : January 28, 2009, 12:09:52 AM

I didn't ask for another article. Is it always wrong to put these monitors on? What if they were 100% fool-proof and didn't "trip?"

Anyways; I'm not trying to annoy you. I just felt like pushing you a little. It's what you get for insulting my generation and I as being heartless. No hard feelings :).

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#29 : January 28, 2009, 12:12:43 AM



Of course not.

I just can't stand when somebody dies due to someone or a group of someones not thinking or being negligent. That limiter was an accident waiting to happen.
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