How many years before the Bucs are back to their 2008 level?

[Boid Fink]

Put the 2008 team in a round-robin against all the playoff teams from last year and we'd lose all those games.

Put aside the last 4 games of the year after Kiffin announced he was leaving.

Here are the results against the only NFC playoff teams they faced in 2008.

The Bucs dominated the Panthers and beat them 27-3.
The Bucs dominated the Falcons in a 24-9 Buc victory.
The Bucs beat the Vikings 19-13.


Sure, after Kiffin announced he was leaving, the team went to hell. But that team was more than competitive prior to then.

Well put.

Too many "the Bucs suck" guys, and I am in your corner.  The Bucs do not "suck".

[cyberdude557]

Talent wasn't the problem. Inept coaching (defense included) and QB play was.

Both have been significantly upgraded.

How the hell can you make that determination? Gruden has won a Super Bowl and 5 division titles. What has Morris won?

And Luke McCown is an upgrade to Jeff Garcia?

You cannot possibly make the determination that these moves were upgrades. As of right now, these moves are question marks.

[JavaBuc]

Ok dalbuc, let me clarify for you (since you like to put ridiculous spins on things).  When will this team have a record as good as 9-7 again?

[dalbuc]

The question assumes their 2008 level was "somewhere". This team was nothing this year - fragile bit of bailing wire and chewing gum of a team that wasn't going to accomplish anything. Seriously, this was a team that fought for its life to beat the lousy Bears, Lions and Chiefs and got ripped by the Raiders.

So if the question is when will this team once more be a team that won't make the playoffs, I'd say they can do that next year. How soon can they be a team to not win a playoff game - next year.

Now, if you want to ask the more relevant question about when will they be a contender that is another story.

[JavaBuc]

One of the reason Gruden got fired was because we were BETTER than a 9-7 team.

I completely disagree.   The talent on the Bucs roster was not good enough to be a 9-7 team.   The coaching staff got more out of them than what I expected.   

[Simms2Clayton05]

One of the reason Gruden got fired was because we were BETTER than a 9-7 team. We were the first team ever to miss the playoffs after being 9-3. Morris is still getting a good team, we just have to finish on defense and play a little better offensively. We werent terrible offensively, but we were mediocre.

[Madman]

well if we dont spend money this year, as Peter King seems to think after talking with Dominik...then you best be damn well we will be awful next year.  We weren't going in the right direction under Allen either..but my god...if we dont spend money this off-season, forget about it....its got to be ownership.

What Bing said.

Things could get ugly 'round here if this team doesn't add some talent.

[dodda45]

Raheem is inheriting a good team and so is our Mark...with picks and lots of cap space.  I don't have a problem with hiring of Raheem but I will if the team starts losing.  No way should this team bottom out...This is a young, talented group which without a good QB is a 9-7 team (just like this year)...Stop making excuses for this new regime...Can you think of any coach who inherited a team coming off back to back winning seasons, with a boat-load of cash, all their draftpicks, a top-notch facility, with lots of young (we are not an old team) talent that completely flopped?  Gruden won a Super Bowl inheriting a 9-7 team who just came off back-to-back pathetic playoff years...I am not saying that Raheem has to win a Super Bowl...I think the team that Gruden inherited was much better(which means they seriously underachieved under Dungy the last two seasons) than the one Raheem is getting...but his group is pretty good.

You don't fire a coach of a young team with consecutive winning seasons in order to take a step back...We need to get better...This will hopefully be an exciting (and responsible) free agent period and productive draft...There are not many coaches who inherit winning programs in their first job...

[TheChronicHotAir]

Garcia was 14-10 with the Bucs. So far Luke is 1-6.

His two losses came in games where some offensive and defensive starters were rested and he didn't have them helping. <---(Luke was handed a 13-7 LEAD by Garcia in S.F., and quickly turned it into a 21-13 deficit with 2 bonehead plays)

Also, if Luke DOES see an open receiver down the field, he CAN and he WILL throw to them, not just look and look, then 'check down'. <---(11.2 Yards Per Attempt was 11th Highest in the NFL-- can't do that by checking down)

Yes he will, and he will also make plays Garcia couldn't make. <---(Luke doesn't like staying in the pocket either. No Way in Philly can McCown do better than Garcia OUTSIDE of the pocket)

Only 7 or 8 teams had back-to-back winning seasons in 2007 & 2008. The Bucs were one of them while still having an un-used cap room of approximately 20 million....say what you want about Gruden...but that in itself shows how good of a coach he really is.

That's 1/4 of all NFL teams had back-to-back winning records in '07 & '08....but I am sure that the Glazers know what they are doing !  Now if you are of the mind set that we were a SuperBowl contender before last season then I can understand your pain...otherwise..I wished they had given Gruden & Allen one more year to see what they could've done with a winning team & $50 Million plus in cap space....

Go Bucs !

GenBrooks55

[TheChronicHotAir]

McCown is basically the 2nd coming of Billy Joe Tolliver.

That's his new name-- Billy Joe Tolliver McCown.



Shouldn't there be a "Jim Bob" in there somewhere?

[JasonOfthetower]

I will say again what I have said before...

The new administration is taking over a team with winning records in the last two years, with a defense who finished 9th in the entire NFL last year, despite collapsing in the last 4 games, giving up an average of 189 yards per game on the ground, and an offense that finished 14th with a qb who couldn't or wouldn't throw the ball to open receivers down the field, with SEVENTY MILLION dollars under the cap and a full slate of draft picks.

IMO, there is no reason NOT to contend for the Division Championship, despite our "brutal schedule", as the teams we will be competing with have to play essentially the same schedule.

Did I say we should WIN the Division?

NO! �I said we should CONTEND for the Division Championship.

If we don't why did we change HC and GMs?

Shhh...don't let facts interfere with their self depreciating act. If you'd listen to some of the folks on this board, this team was worse talent wise than the Lions and it was the magic of Gruden that saved us from 0-16.

Does the team have holes? Certainly. Does our new regime have a good, solid base to work with? Definitely. This defense that every one is piling on was one of the top defense in the NFL for 12 weeks, didn't allow a rushing touchdown until Week 9 - only allowed one 100 yd rusher during the first 12 weeks. Unfortunately, injuries derailed the defense and the lack of depth did us in.

I don't agree 2009 is a throw away season at all...I do believe with the right moves Tampa Bay can be very much in the mix for the post-season WHILE building for the future.

[O.S. Buc76]

Depending on what we do in the draft and free agency I can see us at 8-8 this year, and then maybe 11-5 next year if everything comes together.

[RatDog]

JC510 - When was the QB position upgraded? I wasn't aware of that.

[JavaBuc]

Anyway, I think I may have to wash my hands with this team if we don't spend money in free agency and by spend money I mean go out and get impact players.  

The scary thing is there seems to be a big lack of interest now in the team with this recent coaching staff change.   It's the first time since the Bucs hired Richard Williamson where I was not enthused at all with the new coaching staff.    I think you are far from the only one on the brink of washing your hands of this team and finding other interests.