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SunnyD

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: January 29, 2009, 11:35:17 PM

Everyone seems to be under the impression that both the Nose Tackle and Under Tackle in Bates' defensive scheme need to be massive trench hogs and while this does apply to the Nose (Grady Jackson 6-2 345, Tim Bowens 6-4 325, Bryan Robinson 6-4 305), it doesn't neccasarily apply to the UT. As you can infer from the names listed below Bates has often used "undersized" DTs and the UT position through out his defensive coordinator career.



Jeff Zgonina 6-2 285 (5 Sacks)

Daryl Gardener 6-6 285 (6.5 Sacks (2.5, 4.0))

Cullen Jenkins 6-3 292 (3 Sacks)

Colin Cole 6-2 299 (2 Sacks)


I only bring it up because I personally believe it is a little presumptious to be ruling players such as Jovan Haye, Chris Hovan, Evander Hood, and Peria Jerry out of any potential future of the Buccaneers defense.

1Va bucsfan

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#1 : January 29, 2009, 11:44:38 PM

Sunny Cole is a space eater dude is 6'1 328 and a FA  I fully expect the team to pursue him. He would replace Sims and push Hovan.

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SunnyD

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#2 : January 29, 2009, 11:50:05 PM

He was considerably ligther than that both the year he was drafted and the year he played under Bates.

So those were the numbers I was using.

bradentonian

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#3 : January 30, 2009, 12:00:18 AM

Would not shock me to see us go after Cole in FA.  However, with the Pack going to 3-4 they might want to re-sign him as NT to rotate/backup Pickett


1Va bucsfan

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#4 : January 30, 2009, 12:07:02 AM

Sunny Even with that said the two DTs you mentioned in Hovan and Haye have shown that they can't consistently funnel the run which is what Bates requires from his DTs. I hope we go with bigger DTs to free up the LBs like when BAL took Ngata that move put new life in that entire BAL D and they returned to being dominate so i'm holding out hope a big space eater does that for the Bucs.

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#5 : January 30, 2009, 12:08:57 AM

Brads I know Bucs fans don't want to hear this but with the Pack going to the 3-4 and them being in the top 10 of the Draft and Cole being a FA,I think this is were Raji will be taken.

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SunnyD

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#6 : January 30, 2009, 01:39:12 AM

And regardless of the Coles weight, Jenkins was the starter that year for twelve weeks before he got injured



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#7 : January 30, 2009, 08:09:38 AM

I only bring it up because I personally believe it is a little presumptious to be ruling players such as Jovan Haye, Chris Hovan, Evander Hood, and Peria Jerry out of any potential future of the Buccaneers defense.


I think that if we go after a UT who is a little undersized it will be this Mitch King kid from Iowa

He plays a lot bigger than his size...and to be honest he was the best DT in the Senior bowl which also included Raji, Ziggy Hood, and Jerry

dalbuc

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#8 : January 30, 2009, 08:21:50 AM

Was Gardner ever that small? I don't think he was that small at Baylor.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

OpTiOnMaStA

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#9 : January 30, 2009, 09:44:20 AM

I like defenses with stout interiors. I've grown tired of this idea of needing an "undersized" UT. It's not as easy to get the players to fit the cover 2 scheme we ran as it once was.

I think Bates will bring us back to basics on the defensive side a bit. There is some talent there, too.

Pteranodon

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#10 : January 30, 2009, 09:49:11 AM

I like defenses with stout interiors. I've grown tired of this idea of needing an "undersized" UT. It's not as easy to get the players to fit the cover 2 scheme we ran as it once was.

I think Bates will bring us back to basics on the defensive side a bit. There is some talent there, too.

Like to see at least one of the DT's be stout. Like one of the guys to be more of a pass rusher though because the Bucs don't have anyone that requires a double team.

Feel Real Good

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#11 : January 30, 2009, 09:54:15 AM

Was Gardner ever that small? I don't think he was that small at Baylor.
Maybe the point is he didn't stay that "small" for long. Some of the reports from the Senior Bowl indicated Jerry looked maxed out on his frame, so even if you don't have to start out 320 lbs., you need to be able to get there, which makes guys like Hood and Moala, who still have room to grow, better candidates.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

gypsie

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#12 : January 30, 2009, 11:59:15 AM

Terrance Taylor out of Mich. was a beast his Jr & Soph. year, dont know what happened his sr year. He is 6ft 315lbs and isnt much of a pass rusher but is a great pocket collapser(if thats a word), and could be had in the 3rd round. I dont think Jerry or Raji will be there when we pick.

Booker Reese

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#13 : January 30, 2009, 12:16:34 PM

Was Gardner ever that small? I don't think he was that small at Baylor.

I think that's right Dalbuc. He seemed to be an undersized guy in Washington. Guy was an incredible anchor for his size in Washington - Nolan squeezed a lot out of him.

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#14 : January 30, 2009, 12:18:48 PM

I like defenses with stout interiors. I've grown tired of this idea of needing an "undersized" UT. It's not as easy to get the players to fit the cover 2 scheme we ran as it once was.

I think Bates will bring us back to basics on the defensive side a bit. There is some talent there, too.

It's not that the Bucs wanted undersized UTs - I think Kiffin would have killed for a big guy like Darrell Russell to have panned out. It's just that he wanted a guy with a quick first step who could penetrate, and the farther you get away from 300 pounds, the less likely it is to find one who can do that.
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