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InChuckyITrust

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#15 : February 06, 2009, 01:06:09 AM

The best team in the league has the best front office and that front office has a plan, as always. 

Bellichick really is a football god.  It's scary. 

"there are no medals here for who can stay at the office the longest," said Jagodzinski. "I'm not into that. The guys that brag about working till 2 in the morning, in my opinion, they're just not smart enough. "

18,2,25,13 ... murderers row?

I support coach Calhoun and his salary

Boid Fink

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#16 : February 06, 2009, 01:20:39 AM

Man, the Pats are lucky, and smart.

It's really just not fair.

Watch in a couple seasons we will be having this discussion about Kevin O'Connell
True.  Funny, but in this time of parity, when a cap is supposed to keep things "in the even", a team like the Pats gets players who buy into a system, desire a ring, and simply go out, and truly make themselves perpetual candidate for the SB Ring.  Other teams meander between good, bad, and alright, but the Pats are always good.  Been that way for a long time, when a Dynasty is not supposed to happen...

Some times there comes a crux, a point where everything aligns perfectly, and it sticks.  I HATE the Pats.


InChuckyITrust

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#17 : February 06, 2009, 04:58:09 AM

Man, the Pats are lucky, and smart.

It's really just not fair.

Watch in a couple seasons we will be having this discussion about Kevin O'Connell
True. Funny, but in this time of parity, when a cap is supposed to keep things "in the even", a team like the Pats gets players who buy into a system, desire a ring, and simply go out, and truly make themselves perpetual candidate for the SB Ring. Other teams meander between good, bad, and alright, but the Pats are always good. Been that way for a long time, when a Dynasty is not supposed to happen...

Some times there comes a crux, a point where everything aligns perfectly, and it sticks. I HATE the Pats.
I hate anything sports related from that city but I love watching the Pats.  Brady is a joy to watch, when he has a big game I feel priveledged to watch it.  I have been to about 10 pats games since Brady took over, he's probably put up 6 performances i'll never forget. 

"there are no medals here for who can stay at the office the longest," said Jagodzinski. "I'm not into that. The guys that brag about working till 2 in the morning, in my opinion, they're just not smart enough. "

18,2,25,13 ... murderers row?

I support coach Calhoun and his salary

HughC

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#18 : February 06, 2009, 11:40:39 AM

Man, the Pats are lucky, and smart.

It's really just not fair.

Watch in a couple seasons we will be having this discussion about Kevin O'Connell
True. Funny, but in this time of parity, when a cap is supposed to keep things "in the even", a team like the Pats gets players who buy into a system, desire a ring, and simply go out, and truly make themselves perpetual candidate for the SB Ring. Other teams meander between good, bad, and alright, but the Pats are always good. Been that way for a long time, when a Dynasty is not supposed to happen...

Some times there comes a crux, a point where everything aligns perfectly, and it sticks. I HATE the Pats.
I saw something in regards to what they have headed in to the draft - without whatever additional draft picks they'll pick up if or when they trade Cassel.

1st round: their own pick, #23 overall
2nd round: #47 overall (trade from San Diego), and their own pick, #58
3rd round: #89, plus #97 (compensation for losing Asante Samuel)
4th round: #124, plus #136 (compensation for losing Donte Stallworth)
5th round: #158, plus #167 (compensation for losing Randall Gay)
6th round: #192
7th round: #230

11 picks overall, with two 2nds, two 3rds and two 4ths.  Add to that whatever they get for Cassel, and their options are wide open.  Load up with a lot of players, trade up, trade away this year's picks for better picks next year, etc.  That's a very enviable position to be in, and one you rarely see from a team coming off a pretty good (11 win) season.

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#19 : February 06, 2009, 12:06:24 PM

I say no team trades for him and make the pats pay two QBs top player money.
I would say that given recent past NFL history, there will probably be at least one team willing to overpay for him.
Look at what the Saints gave up to draft Ricky Williams several years ago, or what teams paid Javon Walker, Ernest Wiford, Jerry Porter, Donte Stallworth, etc. as free agents last year - in a league where QB's are in much higher demand than a WR or RB.

Those are good examples of why nobody will give up that much to get him. Cassel is a much bigger risk than any of those guys. If you (as a GM) give up 2 first rounders, and he busts, you'll never work in football again.

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#20 : February 07, 2009, 08:11:31 AM

IIRC Pat Kirwan was discussing this type of thing and said he was the one that paid O'donnel for the Jets and that's why he is now on Sirius. LOL.



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#21 : February 07, 2009, 09:33:09 AM

Brady is a joy to watch, when he has a big game I feel priveledged to watch it. I have been to about 10 pats games since Brady took over, he's probably put up 6 performances i'll never forget.

That about sums it up for me. I "Hated" seeming him go down and really missed his play.

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#22 : February 07, 2009, 12:05:02 PM

>> New England has $21 million or so I believe in CAP space heading into 09.  Without knowing their FA players, I'd say they could probably afford to keep Cassel one year.  <<

New England has $15 million in cap space and now the tender to Cassel they are 1M over the cap - tenders are automatically subtracted from the cap space. This was done because Cassel had a good performance last season and NE knows that there are QB needy teams that would be interested in signing him in FA. By franchising him, they are guarenteeing that they receive something back on that performance. You may have noticed that Cassel didn't immediately sign the tender as if he had then his new team could not re-negotiate a contract (you cannot re-negotiate a contract for 12 months after it is signed) which would have made it much tougher to trade him as the new team would not only have to cough up some draft choices/players but also have $14.5M available under the cap.

Cassel knows he's going to be traded, if not, he'd be crazy NOT to sign immediately. No way is Cassel going to sit on NE's bench this season as a Backup to Brady. He's now a starter in the NFL and he'll want to go somewhere to continue to play. However, he's grateful enough to NE to allow them to get something back for the time and money they invested in him.

My Prediction: The Glazers want a splash this season and FA is not always certain. Cassel will be their 'risk' for this management change. JMO.

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#23 : February 07, 2009, 12:16:29 PM

Yeah, the cap is like 125 million dollars or so.
Cassell is not under the "exclusive" Franchise Tag....He can deal with any team and the Pats can match it or the team has to send them TWO first round picks. Or they can trade Cassell for all they can get for him. Probably a first and 3rd and he would be yours.
Still not convinced that Cassell is all that. He had the blessing of a good O-line, and and group of wideouts that are star caliber. Moss and Welker make secondaries cringe...

A good O-line and 2 "always open" receivers, yet he led the league in getting sacked.

Things that make you go hmmm.


Boid Fink

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#24 : February 07, 2009, 12:28:04 PM

Yeah, the cap is like 125 million dollars or so.
Cassell is not under the "exclusive" Franchise Tag....He can deal with any team and the Pats can match it or the team has to send them TWO first round picks. Or they can trade Cassell for all they can get for him. Probably a first and 3rd and he would be yours.
Still not convinced that Cassell is all that. He had the blessing of a good O-line, and and group of wideouts that are star caliber. Moss and Welker make secondaries cringe...

A good O-line and 2 "always open" receivers, yet he led the league in getting sacked.

Things that make you go hmmm.
Hmmmm...

He comes to Tampa, and he wil stink.  just my opinion...


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#25 : February 07, 2009, 12:35:15 PM

Yeah, the cap is like 125 million dollars or so.
Cassell is not under the "exclusive" Franchise Tag....He can deal with any team and the Pats can match it or the team has to send them TWO first round picks. Or they can trade Cassell for all they can get for him. Probably a first and 3rd and he would be yours.
Still not convinced that Cassell is all that. He had the blessing of a good O-line, and and group of wideouts that are star caliber. Moss and Welker make secondaries cringe...

A good O-line and 2 "always open" receivers, yet he led the league in getting sacked.

Things that make you go hmmm.
didn't most of his sacks come earlier in the season and he got better?  Guy hadn't started since High School.  Not saying I want to trade for him.


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#26 : February 07, 2009, 01:01:18 PM

>> New England has $21 million or so I believe in CAP space heading into 09.  Without knowing their FA players, I'd say they could probably afford to keep Cassel one year.  <<

New England has $15 million in cap space and now the tender to Cassel they are 1M over the cap - tenders are automatically subtracted from the cap space. This was done because Cassel had a good performance last season and NE knows that there are QB needy teams that would be interested in signing him in FA. By franchising him, they are guarenteeing that they receive something back on that performance. You may have noticed that Cassel didn't immediately sign the tender as if he had then his new team could not re-negotiate a contract (you cannot re-negotiate a contract for 12 months after it is signed) which would have made it much tougher to trade him as the new team would not only have to cough up some draft choices/players but also have $14.5M available under the cap.

Cassel knows he's going to be traded, if not, he'd be crazy NOT to sign immediately. No way is Cassel going to sit on NE's bench this season as a Backup to Brady. He's now a starter in the NFL and he'll want to go somewhere to continue to play. However, he's grateful enough to NE to allow them to get something back for the time and money they invested in him.

My Prediction: The Glazers want a splash this season and FA is not always certain. Cassel will be their 'risk' for this management change. JMO.


Where did you get 15 from?  Everything I have read the past few weeks had NE at 21-22 million, before Casel, so around 6-8 after. 

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#27 : February 07, 2009, 01:32:25 PM

Yeah, the cap is like 125 million dollars or so.
Cassell is not under the "exclusive" Franchise Tag....He can deal with any team and the Pats can match it or the team has to send them TWO first round picks. Or they can trade Cassell for all they can get for him. Probably a first and 3rd and he would be yours.
Still not convinced that Cassell is all that. He had the blessing of a good O-line, and and group of wideouts that are star caliber. Moss and Welker make secondaries cringe...

A good O-line and 2 "always open" receivers, yet he led the league in getting sacked.

Things that make you go hmmm.
didn't most of his sacks come earlier in the season and he got better? Guy hadn't started since High School. Not saying I want to trade for him.


Yes, Nitey made an excellent post on this in another thread. My opinion has changed.

>> I have one big issue with Cassell, 47 sacks. <<

I don't think that's unusual with a 1st year starter. 28 of those 47 sacks came in the first 8 games, he only had 19 sacks the last 8 and 5 of those came in a 33-10 loss to Pittsburgh which means that he only had 14 sacks in the other 7 games which figures out to 2 per game. That shows that he figured out how to get rid of the ball on time.

Other 'stat's' to consider:

21 TD to 11 INT's

Overall QB rating of 89.4 and his final 3 games he had ratings of 108, 116 and 105 and threw 7 TD and 1 pick.
He had 7 games with QB rating over 100 with a high of 136 in a 44-7 win over Denver.
In 11 of his 16 games he completed 60% or more of his passes, in 7 of those it was over 65% and 3 times over 70%.

He's also not afraid to run occassionally as he ran 73 times for 270 yards, 23 of which went for first downs and twice for TD.

Cassel is 6-4/230 pounds and has 4 years in the New England system under the man that developed Tom Brady a 6th round draft choice (Cassel was undrafted) into a sure Hall of Famer.

Frankly, the best QB available is Cassel and he offers the most 'bang for your buck' as he's already a starter and ready to step into a system that already has a number of performers ready to support him.

Let's reload, not rebuild! (I should make that my tag line.)


Of course if NE wants a 1st and a 3rd for him, that price is too high. We have a lot of other needs to fill (DT, DE, WR, RB, etc.) and that would be a rob Peter to pay Paul scenario.


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#28 : February 07, 2009, 01:44:16 PM

>> Where did you get 15 from?  Everything I have read the past few weeks had NE at 21-22 million, before Casel, so around 6-8 after. <<

Since lately I've only frequented ESPN's insider, PFT or this site, it was on one of the three, but lets go with your figure. So instead of having 21-22 million to sign new or their own FA they are down to 6-8 million of which 4-6 million of that

Regardless of which number you want to use, by putting the franchise tag on Cassel they have extremely limited themselves in FA by tying up so much of their available cap space in what could be a backup QB.

My guess is that NE knows that Brady is in line to be back 100% for spring training and they figure that they can work out a deal to trade him before FA begins, thus getting that cap space back.

JMO.

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

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#29 : February 07, 2009, 01:50:52 PM

>> Of course if NE wants a 1st and a 3rd for him, that price is too high. We have a lot of other needs to fill (DT, DE, WR, RB, etc.) and that would be a rob Peter to pay Paul scenario. <<

No it's not. QB is just a big of a need as DT, DE, WR, RB and if we trade a #1 and a #3 for a known commodity we are further ahead.

For example, I would place Cassel above any of the QB's that are available in the 1st round at the moment. He has 4 years of NFL experience and 1 year as a proven starter. That's easily worth a 1st and a 3rd. Also, with our current cap position we should be able to be a player in getting Haynesworth or perhaps Peppers as a FA which would than make up for the loss of the draft choices. This year, we definately can afford it.

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality
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