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LFO

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« #30 : February 07, 2009, 01:54:18 PM »

>> Where did you get 15 from? �Everything I have read the past few weeks had NE at 21-22 million, before Casel, so around 6-8 after. <<

Since lately I've only frequented ESPN's insider, PFT or this site, it was on one of the three, but lets go with your figure. So instead of having 21-22 million to sign new or their own FA they are down to 6-8 million of which 4-6 million of that

Regardless of which number you want to use, by putting the franchise tag on Cassel they have extremely limited themselves in FA by tying up so much of their available cap space in what could be a backup QB.

My guess is that NE knows that Brady is in line to be back 100% for spring training and they figure that they can work out a deal to trade him before FA begins, thus getting that cap space back.

JMO.

Perhaps.  But it was also reported that 5 guys are taking up $65 million, and they will try and restructure some of them to gain cap space.

This is what I posted earlier:

Quote
I do know, according to scout, DE Richard Seymour, OT Matt Light, WR Randy Moss, LB Adalius Thomas, and DE Jarvis Green have a combined $65m in cap charges.  They'll likely restructure a few of those guys, which IMO are much bigger problem than $28 million in the 2 QB's......

I agree, they will look to trade him, but I don't think they would be hurting to keep him 1 year.

I also don't think NE has many needs (this was a super bowl team with Brady last year, still went 11-5 without) and I don't believe they have many key FA to sign.  

nitey

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« #31 : February 07, 2009, 02:03:24 PM »

>>  But it was also reported that 5 guys are taking up $65 million, and they will try and restructure some of them to gain cap space. <<

Restructing is extremely limited at this time as 2009 is the last year with a cap. You can't backload contracts anymore.

See this from a Boston paper:

After adjusting to a rash of coaching changes, the Patriots must rebuild their staff and fix some of the holes on the field that caused them to miss the playoffs in 2008.

Scott Pioli, Josh McDaniels, Brad Seely and Dom Capers are gone, but no major player changes have occurred yet. The Patriots still have 20 free agents they'll need to address beginning in March.

QB Matt Cassel was given the Patriots' franchise tag on Feb. 5, ensuring the team won't lose him for nothing as a free agent. When he signs the one-year tender, it will be worth $14.65 million. If Tom Brady's rehab from knee surgery continues on a pace that will have him ready in time for next season, there's a good chance the Patriots will attempt to trade Cassel.

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John Galt?

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« #32 : February 07, 2009, 02:15:35 PM »

>> Of course if NE wants a 1st and a 3rd for him, that price is too high. We have a lot of other needs to fill (DT, DE, WR, RB, etc.) and that would be a rob Peter to pay Paul scenario. <<

No it's not. QB is just a big of a need as DT, DE, WR, RB and if we trade a #1 and a #3 for a known commodity we are further ahead.

For example, I would place Cassel above any of the QB's that are available in the 1st round at the moment. He has 4 years of NFL experience and 1 year as a proven starter. That's easily worth a 1st and a 3rd. Also, with our current cap position we should be able to be a player in getting Haynesworth or perhaps Peppers as a FA which would than make up for the loss of the draft choices. This year, we definately can afford it.

LOL-Now we are arguing the same point in different threads.

If we got Fat Albert or Peppers (AND retained Bryant!), then our draft picks become less urgent ergo less valuable so the deal becomes more palatable.


LFO

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« #33 : February 07, 2009, 02:25:50 PM »

>>  But it was also reported that 5 guys are taking up $65 million, and they will try and restructure some of them to gain cap space. <<

Restructing is extremely limited at this time as 2009 is the last year with a cap. You can't backload contracts anymore.

See this from a Boston paper:

After adjusting to a rash of coaching changes, the Patriots must rebuild their staff and fix some of the holes on the field that caused them to miss the playoffs in 2008.

Scott Pioli, Josh McDaniels, Brad Seely and Dom Capers are gone, but no major player changes have occurred yet. The Patriots still have 20 free agents they'll need to address beginning in March.

QB Matt Cassel was given the Patriots' franchise tag on Feb. 5, ensuring the team won't lose him for nothing as a free agent. When he signs the one-year tender, it will be worth $14.65 million. If Tom Brady's rehab from knee surgery continues on a pace that will have him ready in time for next season, there's a good chance the Patriots will attempt to trade Cassel.

I think we are in agreement here, so not sure what you are arguing.

I do think the Pats will TRY to trade Cassel.  Whether or not they get a taker is another story, just as well whether or not Brady is healthy enough for them to do so.  Either way, franchising Cassel was smart on their part.....they get to match any offer, 2 1st rounders if they don't, and can still trade him...or keep him, albeit at a big # but if Brady is uncertain that would be worth it. 

You can't backload deals but there are other ways I think teams will get creative in restructuring...and the Patriots are the best in the business IMO.  They are excellent in getting guys to buy into the "team" concept and are willing to do what it takes to keep the group together or bring new guys in.  Hell, it wouldn't surprise me at all IF Brady is not ready for him to take some sort of cut in order to keep Cassel.......

I have been saying all along, I'd like to see us sign Albert and Bryant.  Trade 1 and 3 for Cassel.  Use R2 on another need.

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« #34 : February 07, 2009, 02:39:42 PM »

Yeah, the cap is like 125 million dollars or so.
Cassell is not under the "exclusive" Franchise Tag....He can deal with any team and the Pats can match it or the team has to send them TWO first round picks. Or they can trade Cassell for all they can get for him. Probably a first and 3rd and he would be yours.
Still not convinced that Cassell is all that. He had the blessing of a good O-line, and and group of wideouts that are star caliber. Moss and Welker make secondaries cringe...

A good O-line and 2 "always open" receivers, yet he led the league in getting sacked.

Things that make you go hmmm.
From what I understand their o-line was in shambles till mid-season.  Their best lineman, Neal, was on PUP and their next best, Light, was playing injured.  They were also down to starting a pratice squad player at RB.  Keep in mind too he was getting no reps with the starters till after Brady was hurt, so it probably took a while till the QB and WR were on the same page with their timing and adjustments. 

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« #35 : February 07, 2009, 02:45:18 PM »

I too will echo the sentiment that their o-line was in shambles due to injury along it. 

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« #36 : February 07, 2009, 02:49:32 PM »

Yeah, the cap is like 125 million dollars or so.
Cassell is not under the "exclusive" Franchise Tag....He can deal with any team and the Pats can match it or the team has to send them TWO first round picks. Or they can trade Cassell for all they can get for him. Probably a first and 3rd and he would be yours.
Still not convinced that Cassell is all that. He had the blessing of a good O-line, and and group of wideouts that are star caliber. Moss and Welker make secondaries cringe...

A good O-line and 2 "always open" receivers, yet he led the league in getting sacked.

Things that make you go hmmm.
From what I understand their o-line was in shambles till mid-season. Their best lineman, Neal, was on PUP and their next best, Light, was playing injured. They were also down to starting a pratice squad player at RB. Keep in mind too he was getting no reps with the starters till after Brady was hurt, so it probably took a while till the QB and WR were on the same page with their timing and adjustments.

I know. I already backpeddled on that after Nitey posted some stats.


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« #37 : February 07, 2009, 02:49:41 PM »

>> I have been saying all along, I'd like to see us sign Albert and Bryant.  Trade 1 and 3 for Cassel.  Use R2 on another need. <<

That's what I believe also and frankly, it's all doable. Bryant, isn't going anywhere this year and we *should* be in the final field for Hanyesworth. The only reason that he doesn't come here should be because he's convinced the coaching on another team is superior, and frankly that's the job of Morris to convince him otherwise, it really shouldn't be money. And if we don't get Al, then we should end up with Peppers.

Frankly, I'm more concerned that Albert will take the money and get soft than I am that Cassel will be a bust.

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« #38 : February 07, 2009, 02:56:32 PM »

>> I have been saying all along, I'd like to see us sign Albert and Bryant.  Trade 1 and 3 for Cassel.  Use R2 on another need. <<

That's what I believe also and frankly, it's all doable. Bryant, isn't going anywhere this year and we *should* be in the final field for Hanyesworth. The only reason that he doesn't come here should be because he's convinced the coaching on another team is superior, and frankly that's the job of Morris to convince him otherwise, it really shouldn't be money. And if we don't get Al, then we should end up with Peppers.

Frankly, I'm more concerned that Albert will take the money and get soft than I am that Cassel will be a bust.

Fine then, I'll accept that on the condition that it is this years 1 & 3 (all those QBs in the 2010 draft mean some other positions will drop).

Who do I need to call and what form do I fill out to get it done?


nitey

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« #39 : February 07, 2009, 03:28:23 PM »

>> Fine then, I'll accept that on the condition that it is this years 1 & 3 (all those QBs in the 2010 draft mean some other positions will drop).

Who do I need to call and what form do I fill out to get it done? <<


Heh. John your an easy sell, I hope Morris and company are as easy to sell as well.


Seriously though, there is really no reason to save cap space this year. Dominik and Morris should have pretty much a free hand in getting anyone that they desire this year $45-50 million pretty much makes us in play for everyone.


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« #40 : February 07, 2009, 04:38:54 PM »

A good O-line and 2 "always open" receivers, yet he led the league in getting sacked.

Things that make you go hmmm.

He was sacked 1 more time than Big Ben's 46. What if the majority of those came early in the season when he was just getting his feet wet..... would that change your mind any?

dbucfan

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« #41 : February 07, 2009, 04:44:07 PM »

Quite a price - 2 first rounders and 12.65 million - would have to be very right...

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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« #42 : February 07, 2009, 06:13:05 PM »

I don't think it will take two 1st rounders to end up with Cassel, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did assuming there was enough interested teams.

I really suspect that there will only be two maybe three interested teams. Detroit has the 1st overall selection and I suspect that while they need a QB, they won't be willing enough to deal that 1st pick and even if they were, would NE be interested? That's a huge contract that gets given to a untested rookie. How would the fans of Detroit react to a trade involving that coveted 1st pick (coveted by fans I suspect more than NFL teams)? No, I think Detroit keeps the pick and either drafts a QB or uses it for another position.

I think it will come down to us, Minnesota, perhaps Carolina, Kansas City (although I don't know how they feel about Thigpen) and possibly the Jets. Of those, Tampa and Minnesota seem to have the greatest need although if the Jets release Farve and Farve unretires, he might go to Minnesota at last. I doubt that the eventual compensation will go that high. One 1st is probably a given, but the second pick will depend on who and how much the added interest is.

Cassel isn't going to score a contract worth $12M out of the gate. I wouldn't be surprised at 5-7M considering his stats, but that's numbers that the Bucs can easily live with. When you look at the NFL landscape, there aren't a lot of teams in dire need of a QB like the Bucs are. Cassel to the Bucs makes a lot of sense on a lot of levels.

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« #43 : February 07, 2009, 06:24:32 PM »

I don't think it will take two 1st rounders to end up with Cassel, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did assuming there was enough interested teams.

I really suspect that there will only be two maybe three interested teams. Detroit has the 1st overall selection and I suspect that while they need a QB, they won't be willing enough to deal that 1st pick and even if they were, would NE be interested? That's a huge contract that gets given to a untested rookie. How would the fans of Detroit react to a trade involving that coveted 1st pick (coveted by fans I suspect more than NFL teams)? No, I think Detroit keeps the pick and either drafts a QB or uses it for another position.

I think it will come down to us, Minnesota, perhaps Carolina, Kansas City (although I don't know how they feel about Thigpen) and possibly the Jets. Of those, Tampa and Minnesota seem to have the greatest need although if the Jets release Farve and Farve unretires, he might go to Minnesota at last. I doubt that the eventual compensation will go that high. One 1st is probably a given, but the second pick will depend on who and how much the added interest is.

Cassel isn't going to score a contract worth $12M out of the gate. I wouldn't be surprised at 5-7M considering his stats, but that's numbers that the Bucs can easily live with. When you look at the NFL landscape, there aren't a lot of teams in dire need of a QB like the Bucs are. Cassel to the Bucs makes a lot of sense on a lot of levels.

So he sits there and gets paid his franchise price..

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« #44 : February 07, 2009, 07:16:06 PM »

A good O-line and 2 "always open" receivers, yet he led the league in getting sacked.

Things that make you go hmmm.

He was sacked 1 more time than Big Ben's 46. What if the majority of those came early in the season when he was just getting his feet wet..... would that change your mind any?

Your answer lies in my (and Nitey's ) later posts.

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