BREAKING: JAGODZINSKI DISCUSSES BUCS OFFENSE

[alldaway]

So where is the link to back up your outlandish claim?

I provided the link you asked for, and in turn you should do the same.

What link did I ask for?

Do you deny that you said Davis would be a future Pro Bowler?  Yes or No?

I never made that claim brah.

[Biggs3535]

It is clear you are fairly young not to remember Oben's performance down the stretch (playoffs) in 02. If I recall correctly (anyone can correct me) the Bucs o-line surrendered zero sacks in their playoff run. Oben was a part of that, and to suggest just because he was traded for a fifth he wasn't that good is not a convincing argument. That is one of the bigger black marks against Allen.

Oben, like the rest of the team, played excellently down the stretch in '02.  I never said otherwise.  What I said was he played better as a Charger than as a Buc.  The fact that the Chargers didn't trade him for a 5th rounder, or any other pick, backs that up.

Jason Peters is overrated, and it is a travesty he made the Pro Bowl.

Which Pro Bowl?  That overrated player has been selected as the starter for two of them.

[alldaway]

Oben, like the rest of the team, played excellently down the stretch in '02.� I never said otherwise.� What I said was he played better as a Charger than as a Buc.� The fact that the Chargers didn't trade him for a 5th rounder, or any other pick, backs that up.

Which Pro Bowl?� That overrated player has been selected as the starter for two of them.

It is your opinion he played better as a Charger than a Buc.  But I do not think his play as a Charger at any time eclipsed what he did during the Super Bowl run.  The argument that he wasn't traded away by the Chargers as a justification for him playing better as a Charger than a Buc is a poor one.  The Chargers did draft this guy named McNeil in 2006 to replace a declining Oben remember?

If you can't come to grips with how Jason Peters is overrated based on the facts that is your problem.  For the rest of us where we seek these facts it is clear as day what the number of sacks allowed by him indicates.

[Biggs3535]

It is your opinion he played better as a Charger than a Buc.  But I do not think his play a Charger at any time eclipsed what he did during the Super Bowl run.

You're comparing 5 or 6 games as a Buc to 24 as a Charger.  Oben was consistently better as a Charger, IMO.  You can hold on to that short span as evidence if you like.

The argument that he wasn't traded away by the Chargers as a justification for him playing better as a Charger than a Buc is a poor one.  The Chargers did draft this guy named McNeil in 2006 to replace a declining Oben remember?

Yes, I do.  Oben's injuries greatly contributed to that.

If you can't come to grips with how Jason Peters is overrated based on the facts that is your problem.  For the rest of us where we seek these facts it is clear as day what the number of sacks allowed by him indicates.

Those sack numbers have more to do with JP Losman than Peters.  Losman was sacked three times more often than Edwards when he was in the game.

It helps if you actually watch the games than just being a stat jockey.

[BucFanOcala]

oben,jenkins,christy,coleman and our favorite player nuber 69:D

ah the memories.

[alldaway]

You're comparing 5 or 6 games as a Buc to 24 as a Charger.  Oben was consistently better as a Charger, IMO.  You can hold on to that short span as evidence if you like.

Yes, I do.  Oben's injuries greatly contributed to that.

Those sack numbers have more to do with JP Losman than Peters.  Losman was sacked three times more often than Edwards when he was in the game.

It helps if you actually watch the games than just being a stat jockey.

Again that is your opinion that those few games didn't matter as a Buc or do not carry the same weight compared to what he did as a Charger.

Injuries may have been a factor, but it wasn't the only one to draft a LT in the first round, and then to proceed to start that LT as a rookie.

Now you are trying to justify how he allowed so many sacks because of different QB's?  Tell me was Buffalo the only team to have different QB's to play in the 2008 season?

[Biggs3535]

to draft a LT in the first round, and then to proceed to start that LT as a rookie.

McNeal was a second round pick, and obviously better than Oben.

Now you are trying to justify how he allowed so many sacks because of different QB's?  Tell me was Buffalo the only team to have different QB's to play in the 2008 season?

Edwards was sacked once every 16.26 drop backs and Losman once every 6.93 drop backs.  Losman's awful.  Proof's in the pudding...unless the entire O-Line just decided not to play when Losman was in there.

[Feel Real Good]

thus the "stonewalled" junk and nor do people, even the best rushers, get sacks every game.

Well, Ware had 10 games in a row with a sack, a record, before facing Penn.

Take it for what it's worth.

This really is the same bit as Davis, well he didn't give up a sack in game X so he must be good. The aggregate of his effort isn't good and his sack total over the last 2 years is nothing inspiring.

The difference between Davis and Penn is the pressure on the QB was almost always coming from Davis' side.  That can't be said of Penn.

Now I did not see the Dallas game, but looking at the box score, Garcia had a pretty terrible day, throwing for his second worst YPA of the season, and the Bucs only scored 9 points. I've got to think Ware had something to do with that, even if he didn't get a sack. It makes me think of the Tennessee game from 2007. Vanden Bosch didn't get a sack all day, but he consistently abused Penn and Garcia couldn't get anything going in the passing game. Granted that was one of Penn's first career starts, but same concept. Sacks don't always tell the whole story.

[Biggs3535]

Penn did a good job on Ware.  That game was one of the Garcia specials where he was running from pressure that wasn't there and taking the checkdown way too often.

[rowdie]

I'm excited about raheem and no john but monty being gone scares me..

That's what really makes it a new Era.

[MBF]

ADW pulling the old 'provide a link to something he never said' trick again? For shame...

[alldaway]

I do not recall anyone calling AD pro bowl worthy.  He simply threw that in there as an ad hominem attack knowing he can not debate the topic at hand.

Penn did a good job on Ware. That game was one of the Garcia specials where he was running from pressure that wasn't there and taking the checkdown way too often.

Garcia's sack rate per pass attempt in reality only improves the argument that Penn is overrated.

[Simms2Clayton05]

Penn did a good job on Ware. That game was one of the Garcia specials where he was running from pressure that wasn't there and taking the checkdown way too often.

Garcia was the reason we lost that game.

[Biggs3535]

I do not recall anyone calling AD pro bowl worthy.  He simply threw that in there as an ad hominem attack knowing he can not debate the topic at hand.

Your views on Anthony Davis are most certainly valid when you are evaluating any O-Lineman and calling them overrated.

That's not the first quote of yours you have deleted, I bet.

[alldaway]

I do not recall anyone calling AD pro bowl worthy.  He simply threw that in there as an ad hominem attack knowing he can not debate the topic at hand.

Your views on Anthony Davis are most certainly valid when you are evaluating any O-Lineman and calling them overrated.

That's not the first quote of yours you have deleted, I bet.

Taking quotes out of context only cuts your argument at the knees.

And I do not pre-emptively delete quotes, because if I did you wouldn't be able to find any.