Can we set the record straight?

I am getting sick of hearing Goobers calling 620 stating "Gruden won with Dungy's team"  Either those people have only been watching the bucs for 8-10 years or they have NO memory farther than then.

1) The core players of the Dungy team (Brooks, Sapp, Lynch) were all drafted before Dungy with Sam Wyche so all in all Dungy won a lot because of 'Sam's" players

2) Tony Dungy took over a Bucs team with young talent and some core defensive players young in their career

3) Dungy/McKay had tons of money to play with because we had a cheap owner and tons of space to work with so rebuilding the BUCS as a franchise with the Glaziers was like having a blank check in an era where not a lot of teams had money.

4)Talk about bad drafts and bad use of money...the horrors of the early round Dungy players were Two first round picks in 1996 on Regan Upshaw and Marcus Jones a first round pick on Reidel Anthony in 1997 Second rounder on Jaquez Green in 1998 Booger in 1999 a trade for Keyshawn Johnson and  a trade up in 2001 for Kenyatta Walker. We drafted better in later rounds picking Barber and Kelly in 2-4.

5) Gruden unlike Dungy took control of a  defense with about a quarter of a tank left after all those years of keeping this bad offensive team under Dungy afloat...he didnt have the room to cut players and add as salary cap penalties would eat him alive.

6) Gruden unlike Dungy didnt have a blank check to spend money to rebuild lest retool a team. He added key pieces in the superbowl run "Grudens players" to get them over the hump....really I believe if it was not for Joe Jurivicious's (Gruden's player) catch to spark the team I think today we still relent on the ofer in Philly.

7) Gruden didnt have 4 first round draft picks in his first 2 years unlike Dungy to assist in trying to get this team back.....and if it was not for Richy we would have Michael Westbrook in round 3 not Marquise Walker in Gruden's first draft.


So please "those people" who call the radio and say "Gruden won with Dungy's team" read this post first and get you story straight

[miamicanes04]

While I think Gruden had a great team to work with. He got us over the hump that I don't think Dungy would of got us over.

[Feel Real Good]

Most people live in a world of absolutes where a person is either god or the devil when in reality Dungy did some good things for the team, Gruden did some good things for the team, and both messed some things up.

While I think Gruden had a great team to work with. He got us over the hump that I don't think Dungy would of got us over.

Can you also say that Dungy came into a gold mine with the Tampa job with the new owners...it was really hard for him to fail?
Gruden had a bigger mountain to climb?

[dalbuc]

So please "those people" who call the radio and say "Gruden won with Dungy's team" read this post first and get you story straight

Thank god you were able to break new ground on this particular story.

[cheveliar]

Most people live in a world of absolutes where a person is either god or the devil when in reality Dungy did some good things for the team, Gruden did some good things for the team, and both messed some things up.

FRG, stop, just stop the making of good sensible statements on this board.  They will not be tolerated (much less accepted...)

You can also say this.

1) Dungy or his staff NEVER developed a young QB
2) Dungy or his staff NEVER developed a good WR

Some of the same things that Gruden was hammered for

[dalbuc]

You can also say this.

1) Dungy or his staff NEVER developed a young QB
2) Dungy or his staff NEVER developed a good WR

Some of the same things that Gruden was hammered for

So your brilliant logic is that Gruden = bad as Dungy? This is really not the most clever strategy for helping your man-crush that I've ever seen.

You can also say this.

1) Dungy or his staff NEVER developed a young QB
2) Dungy or his staff NEVER developed a good WR

Some of the same things that Gruden was hammered for

So your brilliant logic is that Gruden = bad as Dungy? This is really not the most clever strategy for helping your man-crush that I've ever seen.

Wouldnt call it a man crush...just tired of people bringing up this crap on the eve of superbowl.

Did Tony do anything in Indy but bring in philosophy? He didnt develop Peyton Manning or Marvin Harrison. His defense isnt really that great. Now after this year he probably will lose Freeney he couldnt keep Corey Simon and Booger really isnt the answer. His defense just allowed  30+ points and if it wasnt for Peyton Manning and co it would probably have been ugly.

All I an stating is "dont crown him yet"  he is a good philosophical coach but other than that I dont see where he has "built" anything

I give credit to two people for the sucess of this defense....Rod and Monte

Can we set the record straight?

Thank God someone has finally settled this issue. Perhaps next you can clear up that whole 'chicken or egg first' thing.

[dalbuc]

I give credit to two people for the sucess of this defense....Rod and Monte

Impressive but at least consistent, the HC isn't responsible for anything. Gruden doesn't then get credit for how well that D has done during his time and I assume you'll toss our current OC under the bus for the failure of this offense?

[BucsAddict]

You can also say this.

1) Dungy or his staff NEVER developed a young QB
2) Dungy or his staff NEVER developed a good WR

Some of the same things that Gruden was hammered for

So your brilliant logic is that Gruden = bad as Dungy? This is really not the most clever strategy for helping your man-crush that I've ever seen.

Wouldnt call it a man crush...just tired of people bringing up this crap on the eve of superbowl.

Did Tony do anything in Indy but bring in philosophy? He didnt develop Peyton Manning or Marvin Harrison. His defense isnt really that great. Now after this year he probably will lose Freeney he couldnt keep Corey Simon and Booger really isnt the answer. His defense just allowed  30+ points and if it wasnt for Peyton Manning and co it would probably have been ugly.

All I an stating is "dont crown him yet"  he is a good philosophical coach but other than that I dont see where he has "built" anything

I give credit to two people for the sucess of this defense....Rod and Monte

you're beginning to overtake Samari.

[Shag]

Gruden didn't win with Dungy's team, just with Kiffin's defense.

Gruden didn't win with Dungy's team, just with Kiffin's defense.

I will admit that as very very true

[corporal.clegg]

"Gruden won with Dungy's team" 

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