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CyberDilemma

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#15 : March 06, 2009, 03:57:56 AM

I'm gonna go way, way out on a limb and say K2 will end up being a hall of famer tight end when the day is done. So, to answer your question, I do not believe we gave up too much to get him.

ufojoe

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#16 : March 06, 2009, 09:02:36 AM

Now keep in mind you that Winslow is not as injury prone as you guys say he was.  He rode a bike like a madman.  I had one, did the same.  Wrecked it as well.  He hurt his knee.  Not football.  Maturity, changed man...yes?  I can dig that.  It is the Tampa air.  Now, he also had a staph infection.

Yes, he is as injury prone as some have said. Hopefully, that changes. In a few years, we'll have some idea of whether or not we gave up too much.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2009/02/with_browns_regime_seeking_a_n.html

Many Browns fans love Winslow for his passion on the field, his suction cups for fingers and his knack for catching passes with a defender hanging on his back.

But the injury-prone Winslow missed the last six games of 2008, and has played only 44 of a possible 80 games in his five-year Browns career.

Winslow is tough on coaches and the front office. He's had four knee surgeries, meaning it's difficult for him to practice between games. His shoulder often aches, his body never has been the same since a major motorcycle accident after the 2005 season.

On the field, his knee problems have severely hampered his blocking. His speed also has decreased, and he no longer can sprint past defenders to get open as he did a few years ago. In 10 games, he was flagged for seven offensive pass interference penalties - because he had to illegally push away a defender to create space to catch a pass.


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#17 : March 06, 2009, 09:04:24 AM

If he stays healthy this trade was great, almost a robbery if he gets back to his old form.

dalbuc

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#18 : March 06, 2009, 09:06:03 AM

That's all well and good but he dropped two 80+ catch seasons after the accident and in 8 games had 43 this year so he was on pace for another 80 catch season but for the CLE staph.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.

Got_Spleen

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#19 : March 06, 2009, 09:10:40 AM

At this point, it still appears we wasted a pick on Michael Clayton, yet we gave this clown a contract with money he hasn't earned. You can't tell me Clayton is in the same league as K2.

MarleyMon81

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#20 : March 06, 2009, 09:28:38 AM

Going rate for a young, vet PB TE.  Same compensation the Saints gave the Giants for Shockey last year.  I don't think it was a steal or robbery either way, just a fair market deal for both sides.

Very glad to have K2.  Had just sat back down after lunch last Friday when I saw it on Bucs.com and nearly lost it.  I couldn't believe we had traded for a guy I was dying for in the 2004 draft.


Pick6

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#21 : March 06, 2009, 09:58:22 AM

2nd rounder for a proven #2 WR is a win-win trade



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#22 : March 06, 2009, 10:04:29 AM

I am sure he has no baggage. The Browns took a second for the number 6 overall pick. HMMMMMMM. Why? Baggage, and he won't block. Obvious.

MarleyMon81

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#23 : March 06, 2009, 10:16:09 AM

I am sure he has no baggage. The Browns took a second for the number 6 overall pick. HMMMMMMM. Why? Baggage, and he won't block. Obvious.

He was also looking for a contract extension which Cleveland wasn't willing to do for both him and Edwards.

And no one ever said he didn't have any baggage, however you can definately see a player who has matured as a man in his time in the NFL.  He is not the same brash UM or rookie player anymore.  He still has the swagger and well placed arrogance, something this offense can use, but he also has a sensability about him now and the want to be a leader.

Also to say he won't block isn't true.  It's not his forte and he might not even be that great at it, but he is willig.  Just because a player isn't great at a particular skill doesn't make them unwilling to do it even if they're not that great at it. 

We haven't had a TE with this much offensive potential since Giles.  I think if you're forming your opinion of K2 by what you remember from UM and his early years in Cleveland, you're basing it off a different man.


1sparkybuc

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#24 : March 06, 2009, 10:38:26 AM

At this point, it still appears we wasted a pick on Michael Clayton, yet we gave this clown a contract with money he hasn't earned. You can't tell me Clayton is in the same league as K2.

Michael Clayton will be fine now that Gruden is gone. Injuries and Gruden's doghouse hampered his production since his rookie year. The new regime knows his worth and paid him accordingly. Clayton is one of the very best blocking WRs in the league, and he will return to form in receptions without the prejudice of Jon Gruden. Don't expect 1200 yards from him. He is not the only viable receiver like he was in his rookie year. He will contribute whether the play called is a run or a pass, and he will earn his money and your respect. This team already has a lot of options in the passing game, and defenses won't know where they are vulnerable. The ball will be spread around, and while I'm at it, McCown will prove to be an upgrade over Garcia. He also was a victim of Gruden's doghouse.

John Galt?

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#25 : March 06, 2009, 10:40:08 AM

Good trade. We gave up the same compensation for KW2 as Nola gave for Shockey. IMO KW2 is much better than Shockey. Both are head cases at times and both have injury issues, but when both are healthy KW2 is twice as good.


K2 really only seems like a bad deal because KC put on the ski mask and went after NE. That deal was criminal and it is hard to hold anyone to meet that level of deal...


Egg-xactly. You have to base a value of something on comparables. If you are pricing a house, you look at what other similar houses in that area sold for.  But if you buy a house for $140,000 (and others had sold for $140k-$190k) and Grandpa Jones then sold his house to his grandson for $200.00 you wouldn't think you got a bad deal on your house, would you?

A thousand yard producing 25 year old ProBowler, at any position, is worth a second or more. We didn't pay "or more" so we got a good deal.


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#26 : March 06, 2009, 10:41:34 AM

At this point, it still appears we wasted a pick on Michael Clayton, yet we gave this clown a contract with money he hasn't earned. You can't tell me Clayton is in the same league as K2.

Michael Clayton will be fine now that Gruden is gone. Injuries and Gruden's doghouse hampered his production since his rookie year. The new regime knows his worth and paid him accordingly. Clayton is one of the very best blocking WRs in the league, and he will return to form in receptions without the prejudice of Jon Gruden. Don't expect 1200 yards from him. He is not the only viable receiver like he was in his rookie year. He will contribute whether the play called is a run or a pass, and he will earn his money and your respect. This team already has a lot of options in the passing game, and defenses won't know where they are vulnerable. The ball will be spread around, and while I'm at it, McCown will prove to be an upgrade over Garcia. He also was a victim of Gruden's doghouse.

Well said.



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#27 : March 06, 2009, 10:46:11 AM

I really think Cleveland would of found a way to make it work with Edwards and Winslow unless they just wanted him the heck out of there. Not like Cleveland has a boat load of high paid players. Winslow is definately talented, but the baggage is quite evident.

Simms2Clayton05

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#28 : March 06, 2009, 10:52:10 AM

Hell no we didnt. We needed a playmaker. KW2 is a playmaker and a nightmare for our divisions defenses.

JC510

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#29 : March 06, 2009, 10:52:47 AM

Disagree with you guys on the Chiefs-Patriots deal. Think atleast 60 QBs could have done what Cassel did last year, including Thigpen. Pioli aggressively collecting marginally talented Pats is similar to what Marinelli did up in Detroit.
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