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ufojoe

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#15 : March 11, 2009, 11:35:32 AM

The point is, I need actual evidence in order to make a decision. Thanks to Jon Gruden, we don't have enough evidence on Luke to make an informed decision. The new regime will correct that situation and I will root for him (and JJ) to be the best they can be.

I wanted Luke to get the start in Atlanta but maybe, just maybe, he was on the bench for a good reason. You don't know that and neither do any of us.

What happens if the new regime brings in another QB to compete with Luke and Luke gets benched again? Are you going to say that new regime is in bed with Gruden?

DanTurksGhost

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#16 : March 11, 2009, 11:37:25 AM

I am skeptical of Luke due to issues that I perceive as hard to correct, in particular his apparent lack of good pocket feel. Physically, he's capable. I'm interested to see what he does in an offense that is at least somewhat different than Coach Gruden's.

biffbeaumont

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#17 : March 11, 2009, 11:39:43 AM

Wow. I can't wait to see more threads like this if Morris and Co. bring in a veteran who beats out Luke in TC and then starts........I like Luke, but it's still a 50/50 proposition at this point..

cyberdude557

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#18 : March 11, 2009, 11:49:57 AM

Too many people have bought into the Duemig crap that Gruden intentionally sat players and holds them back because his ego. That's nonsense. The only reason Duemig said such things was because his boy Alstott was near the end of his career and Gruden wanted to begin going into a different direction.

And what you applaud Luke for in the New Orleans game is what you bashed Garcia for in every other game...short passes. Take a look at that game and see how many passes were over 10 yards.

And if I remember correctly, the guy who caught the game-winning touchdown in that game was someone everyone bashed Gruden for as well.

There is a TON of inconsistancy in this fan base.

1sparkybuc

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#19 : March 11, 2009, 11:51:42 AM

McCown is unproven. He's 1-6 as a starter. And there may very well be a reason he was kept on the bench by Gruden that you don't realize. I dont buy the idea that Gruden was holding him back purposely. That makes no sense.

Sure he had a great game in New Orleans. But that was against a very terrible Saints defense and the vast majority of the throws were under 10 yards. One of the few throws over 10 yards was a very ugly interception. The following week in San Fran he threw 2 other ugly interceptions. When he played 5 games in Cleveland, he had 4 TDs and 7 Ints.

We will soon see what he's got and will get a chance. But as of right now I havn't seen anything to suggest he is franchise QB material.

First, ego can distort good judgment. Jon Gruden is famous for his ego.
Second, Cleveland's pass protection sucked. A rookie QB had no chance for success on that team. Include veteran QBs in that statement.
Third, McCown's QB rating was over 100 in his first starts, without the benefit of the first string. He made some mistakes, but don't you expect that? Isn't that typical?

Name any other QB whose QB rating is over 100 in his first three starts with a new team.

I am not saying he is a franchise QB. I am saying there is not enough evidence to say he isn't.

GhostRider

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#20 : March 11, 2009, 11:55:06 AM

Even if McCown plays well, it isn't an indictment of Jon Gruden.  Certain QB's fit better within what a coach is trying to do.  If Jags can get production of of McCown, more power to him.


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#21 : March 11, 2009, 11:57:46 AM

We have "fans" here that attack Luke McCown at every opportunity. He is the leading candidate to be our starting QB in September. What is the point in undermining his confidence and treating him like he's the enemy? He's on our team. He's our guy. How about showing a little encouragement and support for a change. He's had ONE start with the first string and clinched the division title with 14 seconds left on the Saints home field. Cut him some slack. Support the guy until he proves he can't handle it. Three starts two years ago, is not enough evidence, one way or another.

Gruden kept him on the bench all last season, just like he kept Graham on the bench all those years. It was a mistake with Graham and a mistake with McCown. They both just needed game experience and Gruden was afraid to give it to them. Gruden was fired because of bad personnel decisions. Gruden is an abrasive fowl-mouthed lout, who knows his Xs and Os. McCown is one of those guys who wouldn't say crap if his mouth was full of it. I believe Gruden just couldn't relate to that kind of person. He felt uncomfortable cussing him out, knowing Luke was the better man. The only way he knew to deal with it was to make him third string. Morris won't have that problem, and Luke will have a great season IMO.

Luke's a Christian, but I won't hold that against him. The only concern for me is durability. He will become more decisive with experience. In every other area, he is superior to Garcia and Griese.

Support the team by holding off on the attacks until they are justified.

If the FO had as much confidence in McCown as you do, they wouldn't have tried to unload the high draft picks we have left for Cutler. To me, that tells you all you need to know about their confidence in Luke.

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#22 : March 11, 2009, 12:05:13 PM

If the FO had as much confidence in McCown as you do, they wouldn't have tried to unload the high draft picks we have left for Cutler. To me, that tells you all you need to know about their confidence in Luke.

having confidence in luke and giving up a 1st and 3rd for cutler have no correlation.

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ufojoe

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#23 : March 11, 2009, 12:08:01 PM

And what you applaud Luke for in the New Orleans game is what you bashed Garcia for in every other game...short passes. Take a look at that game and see how many passes were over 10 yards.

12 passes that went for more than 10 yards and he threw two BOMBS to JG for about 40 and 60 yards that were beautiful and on target.

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#24 : March 11, 2009, 12:09:12 PM

And what you applaud Luke for in the New Orleans game is what you bashed Garcia for in every other game...short passes. Take a look at that game and see how many passes were over 10 yards.

12 passes that went for more than 10 yards and he threw two BOMBS to JG for about 40 and 60 yards that were beautiful and on target.

Im talking about the initial pass, not the catch and run which is done by the reciever.

acacius

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#25 : March 11, 2009, 12:09:53 PM

Third, McCown's QB rating was over 100 in his first starts, without the benefit of the first string. He made some mistakes, but don't you expect that? Isn't that typical?

Name any other QB whose QB rating is over 100 in his first three starts with a new team.

I'm not saying his play was unacceptable for a guy who had seen as little action as McCown had, but that stat doesn't look right to me.  As far as I can tell, the actual numbers for McCown's first starts with the team are are 108.7, 86.1 and 108.6, with a 70.4 rating game that he had 32 pass attempts but did not start mixed in.  Again, I'm not saying those are bad numbers.  They really aren't.

Badabing

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#26 : March 11, 2009, 12:11:35 PM

sparky...how is attacking McCown any different than you attacking Garcia when he was our starter?

1sparkybuc

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#27 : March 11, 2009, 12:17:05 PM

The point is, I need actual evidence in order to make a decision. Thanks to Jon Gruden, we don't have enough evidence on Luke to make an informed decision. The new regime will correct that situation and I will root for him (and JJ) to be the best they can be.

I wanted Luke to get the start in Atlanta but maybe, just maybe, he was on the bench for a good reason. You don't know that and neither do any of us.

What happens if the new regime brings in another QB to compete with Luke and Luke gets benched again? Are you going to say that new regime is in bed with Gruden?


Then THAT is evidence that Luke is not ready, maybe not good enough to play in the NFL. That's a confirmation and all I need. I trust Morris to do the right thing for the right reason. I can't say the same for Gruden.

1sparkybuc

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#28 : March 11, 2009, 12:55:19 PM

sparky...how is attacking McCown any different than you attacking Garcia when he was our starter?

Garcia had a bad track record and no upside. His best years were long ago and he was not going do any better in '08 than he did in '07. The evidence was 13 starts by a "veteran" player WITH the first string. McCown was, in effect, a rookie with 3 starts, and only one of those with the first string. Huge difference.

Garcia was never a team player. He whined about his contract and complained when it was rumored that he might have to compete with Favre for the job. He used the media to make public his issues with the team. McCown never complained about anything. In fact he always downplayed any situation that the media tried to exploit. He's a class act and Garcia is not. He considers the organization, as well as his teammates, and Garcia does not. Didn't you ever notice that was all about "I" when the team won. The only time he used "we" was after the losses. The chokes in the red zone were the clincher for me. Garcia was a liability in my book.

Luke needs game experience. He has the tools and great character. Nobody is wondering if he's too old or past his prime. The offense is solid in protection and very promising in weapons. McCown has no excuse if he is given the opportunity. If he fails, it's on him, and my guess is he won't say we.

Encourage him. He is on our side.

swashbuccaler

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#29 : March 11, 2009, 12:55:55 PM



Luke's a Christian, but I won't hold that against him. The only concern for me is durability. He will become more decisive with experience. In every other area, he is superior to Garcia and Griese.

Quote

How sweet of you

Hahaha.


Suh or bust, Dom. You make the call.
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