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warrenfb12

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#30 : March 15, 2009, 04:27:24 AM

I give Dominik huuuuge props on re-signing Bryant and also getting Winslow and Ward signed, but after that he's gone stone cold on bringing any other new players in and we are still lacking any real depth at WR, DT, and LB.
I'm with you 100%. I don't understand why no low contract guys, other than Niko, have been signed to add depth and compete for playing time. Seems to me a team going with a new offensive and defensive scheme should be busy signing guys that would fit in here, but not elsewhere.

Not to mention QB

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#31 : March 15, 2009, 07:49:21 AM

I was on the fence with MD but its looking like guy is really whiffing on free agents. Some might say some of the guys aren't worth it or they were "meh" type players fact of the matter is the team thought they were good enough to visit so we must have wanted them. His chart of a players worth is arse backwards and is forcing him to have to draft from a position of need and not BPA.

Lots of holes coulda been patched in Free agency but haven't even been looked at. Lost out on Big Al, Vilma,Washington now we can't even get 2nd and 3rd tier guys in some of whom have played for some of the coachs(Paymah for Bates).  Sorry about my mini rant,but at least I lasted 2 weeks into Free agency to go on it. Now you guys can rip me apart.

One thing everybody needs to keep in mind is that just because a player has a visit with the Bucs doesn't mean they are super interested in the player. Sometimes it's curiosity more than interest. I've heard that some visits don't go very well and that the organization actually gets turned off by the player's attitude or approach, or they get him in the film room with coaches and quiz him on coverages, or play responsibilities and they don't appear to know their X's and O's. If a player has had an arrest in their background and he is asked about it and the Bucs don't like the answer from a character standpoint, that may be reason enough to pass on signing the player.

Don't think that just because a player visits the Bucs and they don't sign that Tampa Bay whiffed on the player. Sometimes that's the case, sometimes it's not.

The same thing happens with the pre-draft visits, too. We found out after the draft that USF CB Mike Jenkins, whom the team liked on film, bombed at One Buc Place, acting disinterested in the film room and not going all out during his individual workout. The Bucs were really turned off by his visit and obviously took Aqib Talib over Jenkins in round one last year.

1Va bucsfan

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#32 : March 15, 2009, 08:24:20 AM

I understand what your saying SR but JF stated in a few threads that MD was well into negotiations with a few guys so they must have done well. His value chart is something that needs to be worked on.This team has to many holes to be filled through the draft and not getting some of these guys signed is going to really tie the teams hans come draft time.

\\\"The guy who invented the first wheel was an idiot, the guy who invented the other three, he was a genius

BUCFAN4LIFE

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#33 : March 15, 2009, 08:41:29 AM

Free Agency is just fool's gold. You don't win championships by signing every FA under the sun. Ask the Redskins, hell the 49ers have been FA crazy with some big deals and it's done nothing. You win championships in the draft. Plus, something people don't think about.......our entire o-line can become FAs in the next 2-3 years. How are we going to keep all these guys if we don't have any cap space because we spent it all on overrated moneygrubbers in FA?
Actually Gruden added 7 new FA starters to the 02 team and won a title. And this OL is highly paid-  The highest paid center in the league, a 1st round pick, 2, 2nd round picks.  But they will get paid again.

But fools gold doesn't make sense when you look at Clayton (talk about fools gold)- a 26 mil dollar deal not to mention his already pretty damn good rookie 1st round pick contract. All that for one good year!

I agree you win champions through the draft but you have to fill some holes with FA and we have not done much to speak of at all. The team has no clear direction either. They act like win now trading 2 picks for TE who is a luxury and oft injured. You sign probably the best back in FA. But you dont address any of the glaring holes, at CB, DT, LB and we hear the building mantra. It helps to at least add competition at those spots since they are all huge ???'s. Seriously we can't draft enough to fill the depth and starters holes as it stands. So that means street FA's after the draft. All the talent in this FA has been gobbled up for the most part.

Thats why all the frustration from the fans.

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#34 : March 15, 2009, 10:08:40 AM

I understand what your saying SR but JF stated in a few threads that MD was well into negotiations with a few guys so they must have done well. His value chart is something that needs to be worked on.This team has to many holes to be filled through the draft and not getting some of these guys signed is going to really tie the teams hans come draft time.

There has to be a certain amount of negotiation before bringing a player in for a visit. Agents usually demand that so their players' time isn't wasted.

You think this team has a lot of holes, but what if that is not the thinking at One Buccaneer Place?
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#35 : March 15, 2009, 10:11:17 AM

Free Agency is just fool's gold. You don't win championships by signing every FA under the sun. Ask the Redskins, hell the 49ers have been FA crazy with some big deals and it's done nothing. You win championships in the draft. Plus, something people don't think about.......our entire o-line can become FAs in the next 2-3 years. How are we going to keep all these guys if we don't have any cap space because we spent it all on overrated moneygrubbers in FA?
Actually Gruden added 7 new FA starters to the 02 team and won a title. And this OL is highly paid-  The highest paid center in the league, a 1st round pick, 2, 2nd round picks.  But they will get paid again.

But fools gold doesn't make sense when you look at Clayton (talk about fools gold)- a 26 mil dollar deal not to mention his already pretty damn good rookie 1st round pick contract. All that for one good year!

I agree you win champions through the draft but you have to fill some holes with FA and we have not done much to speak of at all. The team has no clear direction either. They act like win now trading 2 picks for TE who is a luxury and oft injured. You sign probably the best back in FA. But you dont address any of the glaring holes, at CB, DT, LB and we hear the building mantra. It helps to at least add competition at those spots since they are all huge ???'s. Seriously we can't draft enough to fill the depth and starters holes as it stands. So that means street FA's after the draft. All the talent in this FA has been gobbled up for the most part.

Thats why all the frustration from the fans.

Like I told 1VA BUCS FAN ... you believe the team has a lot of holes, but that might not necessarily be the thinking at One Buccaneer Place. I talk about this to a degree in my latest SR's Fab 5, which is on the front page of PewterReport.com.

DailyRich68

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#36 : March 15, 2009, 10:38:09 AM

If my math is off I apologize.  Regardless of if it is 21 or 17, it's still a sizeable number.  And regardless of whether or not they signed with their old teams, they were still available.  Here are the CBs that I had counted: Nnamdi Asomugha, Kelvin Hayden, Leigh Bodden, Domonique Foxworth, Bryant McFadden, Chris Johnson, DeAngelo Hall, Andre Goodman, Joselio Hanson, Jabari Greer, Shawn Springs, Charles Gordon, Eric King, our own Phillip Buchanon, Allen Rossum, Eric Green, Drayton Florence, Travis Daniels, Scott Starks, Benny Sapp, and Chris Carr.

Was Asomugha going to turn down the ridiculous contract the Raiders offered him?  Were we going to top that?  And outside of him, how many of those CBs are worth jumping on, outside of the fact that they're CBs and we have money?

Between Bates and our head coach who used to coach defensive backs, I'm comfortable with thinking they simply didn't see anything in this crop worth going after.

The Q

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#37 : March 15, 2009, 10:55:56 AM

Remember the 9-3 of last year....it will be a long time before the BUCS reach that again.
MD and RM have time to turn it around, but it will be long, slow process....I hope they have the time.



The BUCS are gonna surprise people this year!

MBF

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#38 : March 15, 2009, 10:57:17 AM

hey boid...

im a die hard Phillies fan, and Im telling you...you'll enjoy Pat the Bat..

he isn't the greatest, but hell get his 30 HRs, 90 RBIs for ya....
Badabing, ask anyone around here, I am a DIE HARD Philly fan.

And Pat The Bat is a choke artist with two strikes.  He has some good steroid free lumber, but the man is awful with 2 strikes.

I'll do you one better, as a Braves fan:

Jeff Francoeur.

He is Andruw Jones part II with two strikes in the clutch.  This kid kills me!!
+1

Brian McCann FTW.

BUCFAN4LIFE

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#39 : March 15, 2009, 11:12:45 AM

Free Agency is just fool's gold. You don't win championships by signing every FA under the sun. Ask the Redskins, hell the 49ers have been FA crazy with some big deals and it's done nothing. You win championships in the draft. Plus, something people don't think about.......our entire o-line can become FAs in the next 2-3 years. How are we going to keep all these guys if we don't have any cap space because we spent it all on overrated moneygrubbers in FA?
Actually Gruden added 7 new FA starters to the 02 team and won a title. And this OL is highly paid- The highest paid center in the league, a 1st round pick, 2, 2nd round picks. But they will get paid again.

But fools gold doesn't make sense when you look at Clayton (talk about fools gold)- a 26 mil dollar deal not to mention his already pretty damn good rookie 1st round pick contract. All that for one good year!

I agree you win champions through the draft but you have to fill some holes with FA and we have not done much to speak of at all. The team has no clear direction either. They act like win now trading 2 picks for TE who is a luxury and oft injured. You sign probably the best back in FA. But you dont address any of the glaring holes, at CB, DT, LB and we hear the building mantra. It helps to at least add competition at those spots since they are all huge ???'s. Seriously we can't draft enough to fill the depth and starters holes as it stands. So that means street FA's after the draft. All the talent in this FA has been gobbled up for the most part.

Thats why all the frustration from the fans.

Like I told 1VA BUCS FAN ... you believe the team has a lot of holes, but that might not necessarily be the thinking at One Buccaneer Place. I talk about this to a degree in my latest SR's Fab 5, which is on the front page of PewterReport.com.

I thinks that what they would like us to think, but while we may be fans, we are not idiots. We have seen talent gobbled up that could have desperately helped this team. Our DL was awful at getting 4 man pressure last year, not to mention it was gashed in the ground game to end the season.

I dont mind a rebuild to put the pieces back together- but then we get rid of draft picks on a guy who from a rebuilding standpoint was no where near a necessity which now begs the question well are we rebuilding or not. We get Ward and a Kicker. Then we hear the trade rumors for Cutler. More fuel to the not rebuilding. But yet we are giving guys like Black, Hayes, Heyward all shots to take a staring spot and we canned some pretty good players to get there. Sounds like rebuild. My question is who is going to be their competition for the starter role- these guys have not shown they could beat out old starters. And the depth behind LB'er last year was abysmal. We have brought in FA's that could challenge for WR spots, LB spots, CB spots. Guys other than rookies yet they have all signed elsewhere for the most part. And lets remember we brought in a damn kicker for the sake of competition.

So from this fans opinion and standpoint there is no clear direction and no FA's signing when we have the largest cap sapce. Tells me there is no clear direction, The Glazer's are broke, the FO is confused, and agents have directed their players elsewhere or we wownt spend what it takes. SCott I have the utmost respect for your inside knowledge but everyone can see there are huge question marks, and a front office that deos nt seem to answer them, and when interviewed they dont sound sure they even know whats going on.

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#40 : March 15, 2009, 11:24:53 AM

My question is who is going to be their competition for the starter role- these guys have not shown they could beat out old starters. And the depth behind LB'er last year was abysmal.

So from this fans opinion and standpoint there is no clear direction and no FA's signing when we have the largest cap sapce. Tells me there is no clear direction, The Glazer's are broke, the FO is confused, and agents have directed their players elsewhere or we wownt spend what it takes. SCott I have the utmost respect for your inside knowledge but everyone can see there are huge question marks, and a front office that deos nt seem to answer them, and when interviewed they dont sound sure they even know whats going on.

First of all, I address why the young LBs couldn't beat out old starters in my SR's Fab 5. Second, I think the direction the team is going in is quite clear. The Bucs aren't going to spend money just to spend money. They will spend it wisely on the right players who they think will help this team. Last year, Antonio Bryant made $605,000 while the likes of Javon Walker, Bernard Berrian, D.J. Hackett and others made millions (some would say they were overpaid). In the end - no matter how big or how small the contract - Bryant was clearly the best WR signing in free agency. Would you rather have an unproven Bryant at $605,000 last year or $6 million last year?

Are there huge question marks on the roster? You and I may think so, but the Bucs apparently do not. They have a plan to play some of their younger players to actually see what they've got this year. We'll see who is right when the season comes.


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#41 : March 15, 2009, 11:27:43 AM

We have seen talent gobbled up that could have desperately helped this team.

Outside of Haynesworth -- for whose services we were one of the final two teams in the running -- what free agents have we missed on that would have "desperately" helped this team?  I think you're vastly overrating this free agent class.

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#42 : March 15, 2009, 12:43:55 PM

My question is who is going to be their competition for the starter role- these guys have not shown they could beat out old starters. And the depth behind LB'er last year was abysmal.

So from this fans opinion and standpoint there is no clear direction and no FA's signing when we have the largest cap sapce. Tells me there is no clear direction, The Glazer's are broke, the FO is confused, and agents have directed their players elsewhere or we wownt spend what it takes. SCott I have the utmost respect for your inside knowledge but everyone can see there are huge question marks, and a front office that deos nt seem to answer them, and when interviewed they dont sound sure they even know whats going on.

First of all, I address why the young LBs couldn't beat out old starters in my SR's Fab 5. Second, I think the direction the team is going in is quite clear. The Bucs aren't going to spend money just to spend money. They will spend it wisely on the right players who they think will help this team. Last year, Antonio Bryant made $605,000 while the likes of Javon Walker, Bernard Berrian, D.J. Hackett and others made millions (some would say they were overpaid). In the end - no matter how big or how small the contract - Bryant was clearly the best WR signing in free agency. Would you rather have an unproven Bryant at $605,000 last year or $6 million last year?

Are there huge question marks on the roster? You and I may think so, but the Bucs apparently do not. They have a plan to play some of their younger players to actually see what they've got this year. We'll see who is right when the season comes.



SR, I have no problems with getting younger at LB'er but whats the backup plan and depth. We are likely going to whiff on Crowell who could help. As for addressing why the youngsters couldn't beat out the older vets- it's pure speculation that Kiff did not let the youngsters play. Kiff built top ten defenses for over a decade. The proof was on the field- that Kiff knew exactly what players needed to be out there. Your article fails to mention  he let Quarles go for Ruud, he started Talib pretty quick and let Kelly go as well for P Buc who was younger and pretty unproven coming w/ negative press from Houston. He gave Will Allen a shot as well and Tanard beat him out. Kiff's defenses have been the only saving grace for much of the Bucs success in the past dozen years, I wont question his knowledge of who he felt was better suited to play.

As for the direction- you're articles give the insight (thats why I subscribe). But the Bucs FO has not given a whole lot of insight into a clear direction. It comes across as the team being cheap to joe fan and a little lost. We want to build and use younger players but we trade draft picks. We lost out on the #1 prirotiy for basically 5 mil in bonus cash up front. The deal in all actuality was 5 years 48 mil with 41mil guaranteed and 5 mil up front. You cant tell me if we were close second that Big Al's agent did not call back with those numbers saying what more can you do. If you ask me and you're Fab5 spells it out was Dominik was over his head on getting that deal done with the loss of the key FO players and the legal staff. Not all his fault but come on if thats your #1 priority you have to get it.

As for spending money for the sake of spending money- I get that is bad business but we gave Clayton a boatload. And the Bryant sigining was not this FO's signing- it was the lasts. And this FO may not be sold that Bryant is the answer or why not get him on a long term deal. They threw 10 mil at him because maybe just maybe they can't get him to sign a long term because they dont want to give any up front cash. There is a trend to these singings and it breeds the contempt of being cheap up front.  

We will have to wait and see- but with money they have and the fact they raised seats prices 20% last year and have not spent near the cap in 2 seasons now is a little disheartening.

DailyRich68, IMO Canty could have really helped, I think Crowell can help, I think Cole would have helped, Antonio Smith would have been nice, Any CB at this point since we have no depth there what so ever (Foxworth would have been a nice add- not on our radar). I would like to see Ivy. Washington or Henderson would have made for a nice slot option sionce we have no slot guy as it stands. I think you vastly overestimate our current roster-- I could be completely wrong though.


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#43 : March 15, 2009, 12:46:25 PM

The thing that is the most pathetic is if our younger players were free agents from other teams...can you imagine how badly these people would want him?

" Quincy Black, 25 year old 6-2 240, He was a third round draft pick, TONS of potential, SIGN HIM MD!!! "

 "Greg Peterson, 6-5 300+ pounds? This guy is a freakin beast! He had 1.5 sacks as a rookie even though he was a late draft pick, INK HIM MD! "




Boid Fink

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#44 : March 15, 2009, 12:52:03 PM

Glazers are cheap.

Screw em.

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