For years fans clamored for th Bucs to develop their younger players....

[Biggs3535]

Well, they did take a QB in Chris Simms in the very next draft, so the need for a QB was there in their minds.

As for Garrard, I'm not holding his play from last season against him.  Their O-Line was decimated by injuries, and was a big reason for the whole team crumbling.  He still had a good Comp. %, even throwing the ball 535 times with a crappy O-Line.  Garrard would have been a perfect QB in Gruden's system, IMO, much better than Simms without a doubt.

[Feel Real Good]

As for Garrard, I'm not holding his play from last season against him.  Their O-Line was decimated by injuries, and was a big reason for the whole team crumbling.  He still had a good Comp. %, even throwing the ball 535 times with a crappy O-Line.  Garrard would have been a perfect QB in Gruden's system, IMO, much better than Simms without a doubt.

Jacksonville's decimated O-Line pretty closely resembled all of Muir's units in Tampa. Garrard would have been good enough to start, yeah, but with the poor pass protection that was consistent over Gruden's tenure and poor rushing 2 out of every 3 years, I think we'd have mostly seen 2008 Garrard. I'd still take that over Garcia, Griese, McCown, Simms, and Rob Johnson, but I'm not convinced that's enough to carry the team to the next level.

[Biggs3535]

Good, consistent QB play would have made TB's O-Line look much, much better, for many reasons, IMO.

[Feel Real Good]

Then why didn't he make Jax's line look better? The numbers say he takes A LOT of sacks. Over his career he gets brought down once every 13.45 drops back. In his best season, 2007, his rate was every 15.48 passes, and that's in a run-first offense with Taylor and MJD pounding the crap out of the defense. Over Garcia 's career he was sacked once every 20.31 pass attempts and just the last two years in Tampa once every 16.74 passes. Even lead foot Brian Griese has a career sack rate of once every 14.49 attempts. It would appear Garrard does the exact thing Garcia got vilified for - running into sacks - except at a higher rate.

[Biggs3535]

Then why didn't he make Jax's line look better?

He did in '07.

Peyton Manning couldn't have made an OL who was 5-deep in at guard within the first quarter of the first game look good.

Richard Collier was shot in the first week of the season
Vince Manuwai and Maurice Williams were lost for the season within the first quarter of their first regular season game.
On top of that, Williams' replacement at guard, Uche Nwaneri was hurt in the very same game.

I'm not sure what could have been expected of Garrard last season with third-string O-Linemen starting at multiple positions for most of the year.

[Feel Real Good]

He did in '07.

As I said even that year he was still sacked at a higher rate than Garcia was the last two years. And Gruden's offense is pass-first.

[Biggs3535]

I don't think I've ever said Garcia's biggest problem is taking sacks.  He would leave a nice pocket too often and sometimes run into one as a result of that, but that's not the biggest knock on him from my perspective.  Not getting the ball to open receivers down field and being satisfied with the check-down too quickly was always my biggest beef.

I'm not even sure what we're arguing anymore.  Do you not agree that Garrard is better than Garcia, Simms, Griese, Johnson, Dave Ragone, Patrick Ramsey, and Josh McCown?  That's the only point I was trying to make, not necessarily that Garrard would lead the Bucs to multiple Superbowls.

[Feel Real Good]

I'm not even sure what we're arguing anymore.  Do you not agree that Garrard is better than Garcia, Simms, Griese, Johnson, Dave Ragone, Patrick Ramsey, and Josh McCown?  That's the only point I was trying to make, not necessarily that Garrard would lead the Bucs to multiple Superbowls.

ok we're done