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Boid Fink

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#15 : March 25, 2009, 02:21:26 AM

Gotta thank Jon for the Lombardi, fo sho.

Jon was the right man at the right time and I think he was the wrong man at the wrong time every year since then. 2002 had a purpose and a vision and that never happened again.

I still think Jon leading Dallas right now is a force, Jon leading Detroit right now would be the same flop we've had since 2002.
I think Gruden would have won 4 or 5 gameslast year with Detroit, to be honest.  At least.

Gruden in Dalls would be a good choice.  He can coach.  Who can deny?


king_frog

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#16 : March 25, 2009, 10:59:54 AM

Gruden left us a young talented o-line something that has been the Achilles heel of this franchise throughout its existence
I agree with the "O" line being better.. But that's about it !!

LA BUC

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#17 : March 25, 2009, 02:41:21 AM

  You got to admit that Gruden and Allen are one of the worst drafters of all time.

CyberDilemma

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#18 : March 25, 2009, 02:54:39 AM

Gotta thank Jon for the Lombardi, fo sho.

Jon was the right man at the right time and I think he was the wrong man at the wrong time every year since then. 2002 had a purpose and a vision and that never happened again.

I still think Jon leading Dallas right now is a force, Jon leading Detroit right now would be the same flop we've had since 2002.
I think Gruden would have won 4 or 5 gameslast year with Detroit, to be honest.  At least.

Gruden in Dalls would be a good choice.  He can coach.  Who can deny?

Gruden can certainly coach and game plan but he really stinks at play-calling. If he would ever give up being HC/OC and just be a head coach, I believe he would be a lot more effective.



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#19 : March 25, 2009, 06:43:56 AM

How in the hell is the team better now than in 02 when we don't have a single probowl caliber player?

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#20 : March 25, 2009, 06:52:25 AM

How in the hell??!!!  That's easily the reason we're better now.  We're out of salary cap hell!!!  Yes, at present, the team is not as good as it was in its Super Bowl year, but who can deny that the future looks a lot better that it did from that year?  The Glazers knew they had a small window of opportunity to win the Super Bowl and that's why they went out and got Gruden.  Was it Gruden's fault he sold the farm to get him???  No.

MiltonMack21

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#21 : March 25, 2009, 08:45:50 AM

I would like to thank Gruden for our young OL, a hidden gem in Bryant, and a nice shiny Super Bowl ring.
Those are 3 things and those are it.


DefenseWins

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#22 : March 25, 2009, 08:49:42 AM

How in the hell is the team better now than in 02 when we don't have a single probowl caliber player?

Exactly. All this revisionist garbage makes me sick





It is a new day in TAMPA BAY!    GO BUCS!!

DefenseWins

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#23 : March 25, 2009, 08:48:43 AM

.......in better shape than he found it? Yes he did. He took over an aging team that was unbalanced in favor of the Defense. The team is much younger and there is now talent on both offense and defense. If we had had the cap space to attract Drew Brees, Gruden would still be here.
QB was his downfall, but he did set the table for Morris and Dominik. I believe they will build on the talent that Gruden and Allen accumulated in recent years.

It is possible to appreciate his contributions and acknowledge his failures without labeling him a hero or a villain. The man put in more effort than most. He tried his best. I honestly believe he would have won more SBs if he had stayed on with the Bucs. I also believe the new regime will get there quicker. The team needed new coaches and new ideas in order to move to the next level. We all need to move on and support the guys who are here now.
]

I'm sorry, but this post is a total joke. Does anyone realize that the 2002 Buc defense was the best Defense ever????? It was. Where is the freakin respect?!

Let's not make silly comparisons. This years team is so much more green and inexperienced than the '02 team, have new coaching staff on both sides of the ball, Raheem has had no prior hc experience unlike Gru, etc.

 SAPP, BROOKS,LYNCH, QUARLES, BARBER, KELLY,  -These guys were in the peak of their career!

If you enjoy invoking chaos amongst the more impressionable folk around here, so be it.

Tto be sure, Raheem and Gruden have inherited themselves  two very different positions.





It is a new day in TAMPA BAY!    GO BUCS!!



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#24 : March 25, 2009, 08:51:14 AM

There's no argument it is worse, much worse. what can you even argue any other way - 2002 we had Super Bowl level talent, do we have Super Bowl level talent now? No.

Did he fix the offense? No. Never even came close and our talent when he walked out the door was average or worse at almost every spot. Even the vaunted OL still ranks in the 20's so that bunch is a lot of effort for not much outcome.

The defense persisted but it wasn't replenished.



Then the argument can be made that he is a pretty damn good coach.  Because if his talent pool on the field was so shabby, it still managed to win division titles 2 of the last 3 years.

Gru DID make mistakes and many have readily admitted so.  But to say all was negative, even after the SB win, is a falsehood.

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#25 : March 25, 2009, 08:53:03 AM

.......in better shape than he found it? Yes he did. He took over an aging team that was unbalanced in favor of the Defense. The team is much younger and there is now talent on both offense and defense. If we had had the cap space to attract Drew Brees, Gruden would still be here.
QB was his downfall, but he did set the table for Morris and Dominik. I believe they will build on the talent that Gruden and Allen accumulated in recent years.

It is possible to appreciate his contributions and acknowledge his failures without labeling him a hero or a villain. The man put in more effort than most. He tried his best. I honestly believe he would have won more SBs if he had stayed on with the Bucs. I also believe the new regime will get there quicker. The team needed new coaches and new ideas in order to move to the next level. We all need to move on and support the guys who are here now.
   I , see your point to an extent . I think there is talent on this team it went 9-7 last year . There are key losses but they were all aging vets who could not be counted on to do what they did last year which by most teams was still average GARCIA- BROOKS- DUNN -GALLOWAY -HILIARD did not post Pro bowl numbers by any extent .. we did lose Cato wo did not do much .. Jovan Haye  who did not record a sack ..P-Buc who i think was more a product of the sytem due to his failures everywhere before he came here.. either way it will be a new team and i look forward to watching and hopefully winning alot of games.

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#26 : March 25, 2009, 09:04:16 AM

While many of us that wanted to see Gruden leave have respectfully held our tongue during the mourning process for the Chucky faithful, it is getting ever more difficult

to keep quiet. Can you guys get over it?

Gruden lovers were extremely rigid and insulting to those woth differing thoughts before he was fired. Now that he has been fired, there is this hypocritical air to most Gruden lovers who cry in shock when someone would dare rub it in. These same jerks who would not listen to anything negative about Gruden, who ruined good discussion about legitimate problems of the direction of this team, and went right after people's personal character, are now so quick to point out how immature or mean it is to be critical after his firing. What a joke. It's funny how hurt some of you are about it. That in itself should be a good indication that possibly, you invested too much emotion in the wrong place. lol

 Gruden is a bum. Glad he's gone.






It is a new day in TAMPA BAY!    GO BUCS!!



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#27 : March 25, 2009, 09:05:03 AM

Yes I think we do have a better team talent wise. We lack some real leaders though. Brooks, Dunn, Garcia were good leaders on the team, so now other guys have to step up to take those roles. If that happens we could be a better team. I know the defense doesnt seem like it is in great shape, but I think that Raheem is gonna have these guys pumped up to play. I think our offense is going to score touchdowns like he said too. Not because he said they were but i truly beleive we have the talent on Offense now to tear it up.
I hate bashing Gruden, who did a lot of good things for us BUT....

He won the superbowl in his first year with only a few FA acquisitions all the while we were in cap hell. How can it be said this team is in better shape now? We are starting an unproven  qb, a new rb, our receiving core besides Bryant is suspect. The defense needs an overhaul. We need help on the defensive line where we have no legitimate A+ DL men. Gaines is not a top DE or even close at this point. We have no stud interior linemen. Our linebackers, we have a solid middle in Ruud and a FA who should be decent, after that a list of unproven guys. At corner we have talib who should be good, an aging corner who probably is done this year and no proven backups. At safey we have one solid starter in Jackson and another unproven guy in Piscitelli.

Our odds of winning a Superbowl anytime soon, even if our rookie coach is amazing, are not very good. Talent wise we are not very well off right now, and probably in the bottom ten teams in the NFL. I am not negative on this team, as I think for the most part we are headed in the right direction, but we have a TON of holes right now.

bucmoon

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#28 : March 25, 2009, 09:14:20 AM

   We won 9 Games last year and have the Most Salary Cap in NFL History , all our draft picks when we went into Free agency  and we are suppose to get worse .Sorry we should be able to improve .Qb is a issue ? Than address it ...The running game improved - the O-line will have had another year to jell ..Our Wr's are Suspect than address it with FA ...The D-line is very suspect yet we did not do anything to improve with all the cap space yet  , maybe we will soon .



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#29 : March 25, 2009, 09:16:19 AM

Well, Raheem and Dom will get a free pass for this year.  Then if 2009 is a dud, fans will be on their azzes just like they were Dungy and Gruden and those before them.  It's a fan natural.
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