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DefenseWins

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#30 : March 25, 2009, 09:19:22 AM

 
Qb is a issue ? Than address it ...


You must be new at this. See, there are 32 teams with maybe 7-10 special quarterbacks in the league. Saying "address it" is much easier than actually acknowledging the real difficulty that comes with finding a legit QB.








It is a new day in TAMPA BAY!    GO BUCS!!

JasonOfthetower

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#31 : March 25, 2009, 09:19:59 AM

Let him go...


bucmoon

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#32 : March 25, 2009, 09:20:22 AM

Well, Raheem and Dom will get a free pass for this year. Then if 2009 is a dud, fans will be on their azzes just like they were Dungy and Gruden and those before them. It's a fan natural.
I agree , looking forward to this year and will give them time to get the plan in place .I liked Gruden but hated the thought of another year with the 'Over the Hill Gang ' Garcia, Galloway , Dunn, etc ....

dalbuc

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#33 : March 25, 2009, 09:26:16 AM


Gru DID make mistakes and many have readily admitted so. �But to say all was negative, even after the SB win, is a falsehood.

There wasn't a "good" year after 2002. There's really not even much in terms of player-personnel highlights.

2003 might have been the single worst coaching job in Bucs history. The offense never got right. There wasn't any direction and we staggered from year to year with a new "plan" like a drunk sailor - reloading then veteran experience then youth then stability. Young players regressed the longer they were here.

I don't even think he was all that good a coach for most of those seasons. When the defense failed the whole team tanked it so I think what you see is that Monte and the defense continued to hold this franchise together. Put another way, I doubt you'd find many guys who would have done a poorer job since 2002 than Jon Gruden did.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

bucmoon

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#34 : March 25, 2009, 09:29:40 AM

 
Qb is a issue ? Than address it ...

 

You must be new at this. See, there are 32 teams with maybe 7-10 special quarterbacks in the league. Saying "address it" is much easier than actually acknowledging the real difficulty that comes with finding a legit QB.
 Â   

No , i am actually Old at this . Jack Thompson to Jeff Garcia old at it nothing since Doug as far as legit francise qb  . .. I watched other teams address QB last year like the Falcons - Ravens - Dolphins , saw Matt Cassell step into a good sytem and not miss a beat ... Saints addressed it 3 seasons back ... Rogers stepped in did great job ...It can be done

Feel Real Good

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#35 : March 25, 2009, 09:31:15 AM


Gru DID make mistakes and many have readily admitted so. �But to say all was negative, even after the SB win, is a falsehood.

There wasn't a "good" year after 2002. There's really not even much in terms of player-personnel highlights.

2003 might have been the single worst coaching job in Bucs history. The offense never got right. There wasn't any direction and we staggered from year to year with a new "plan" like a drunk sailor - reloading then veteran experience then youth then stability. Young players regressed the longer they were here.

I don't even think he was all that good a coach for most of those seasons. When the defense failed the whole team tanked it so I think what you see is that Monte and the defense continued to hold this franchise together. Put another way, I doubt you'd find many guys who would have done a poorer job since 2002 than Jon Gruden did.
2005 was the only "good" year after 2002. We thought we had a bunch of young talent in place to carry us for the future: Carnell Williams, Michael Clayton, Chris Simms, Anthony Davis, Dan Buenning, Alex Smith, etc. Unfortunately for all those guys 2006, 2007, and 2008 happened and we learned better.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Calvin Johnson

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#36 : March 25, 2009, 11:21:12 AM

I'm still pissed that Gruden was never able to groom a franchise QB. All QB's that had success under him in tampa were journeymen QB's. Besides o-line I think he left us with a good run game; At the beginning of the season; we were once the top team that led the league in yards per carry ( avg 6.5 ypc).If we get stability at QB fore the next couple of years and fix our red zone suckness I will be happy.

John Galt?

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#37 : March 25, 2009, 11:49:13 AM

Did Jon Gruden leave the team.........
.......in better shape than he found it?

Okay, I'll play.

 Â       Gruden inherited:                  Gruden left us:            Better or Worse: on a scale of +5 to -5
QB....Brad Johnson                         Luke/Griese                     Worse                 -4
RB....Alstott/Dunn     Â                     Graham/Dunn                   Little worse        -2
WR...Keyshawn/Jaquez Greene     A. Bryant/Galloway           Better                 +1
TE....Dave Moore/crap                    Stephens/Smith               Better                  +2
OLT..Yatta Walker                          Penn                                Way Better          +4
RT    Wunsch                                  Trueblood                         Way better         +4
LG    Randell McDaniel (age 37)      Davin Joseph                   younger/ better  +4
RG   Cosey Coleman                       Sears                               Waaay better      +5
C.....Jeff Christy                             Faine                                 younger              +2

LDE Marcus Jones                         White/Carter                      meh                    +1
RDE Simeon Rice                           Gaines Adams                    worse                  -4
RDT Warren Sapp                         Keith Sims/Haye    catastrophically worse   -5
LDT McFarland/Darby                    Hovan                                lil better              +2
WLB DBrooks (28)                         DB (37)                              older                   -3
MLB Jamie Duncan                        Ruuuuuud                          much better        +3
SLB Quarles                                  Cato June                           worse                 -3
CB Brian Kelly                               Talib                                   push                    0
CB Ronde                                      Barber                               older                    -3
SS John Lynch                               J. Phillips                           worse                  -3
FS Dexter Jackson                         Tanard Jackson                 better                 +3

K Gramatica                                   Matt Bryant                      less                      -1
P Royal                                          Bidwell                             push                       0
KR Frank Murphy                           Peanut                             Are you kidding      +5
PR Karl Williams                            peanut/platoon                still better              +2



                                                                                              total......................+9


I guess he did leave us off better.
 Â                       

Funny thing is when I started this I thought I'd come up with a -2 or -3 for slightly worse, objectivity can be a female dog.


king_frog

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#38 : March 25, 2009, 12:30:46 PM

John,
Not a bad analysis !! I do not agree with all of your ratings on the scale. But thats what makes this board what it is..
Thanks for the break down..

John Galt?

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#39 : March 25, 2009, 12:40:46 PM

John,
Not a bad analysis !! I do not agree with all of your ratings on the scale.

Thanks. If I did it 3 times a lot of those ratings would be different each time. I'll stick by all the 5s, plus or minus though.


blitz

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#40 : March 25, 2009, 12:46:45 PM

Coaches with images that are larger than the team eventually overshadow the teams performance and it becomes a distraction.  Jon became a distraction because he was larger than life.   

Parcells is one of those figures.   They do get more production out of some players but in the end, their personality is always the focus of the media machine.....not the players on the team. 

The Bucs are better off with a no name coach IMHO.






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#41 : March 25, 2009, 12:48:56 PM

Faine is + 5 over Christie. Other than that not bad....

scope88

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#42 : March 25, 2009, 12:49:14 PM

So next time we win the SB we did it with Grudens team!



king_frog

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#43 : March 25, 2009, 01:26:21 PM

John,
Not a bad analysis !! I do not agree with all of your ratings on the scale.

Thanks. If I did it 3 times a lot of those ratings would be different each time. I'll stick by all the 5s, plus or minus though.
Agreed !!

John Galt?

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#44 : March 25, 2009, 01:41:37 PM

Faine is + 5 over Christie. Other than that not bad....

No, I had Faine as +2 over Christy. Because Faine is 27 and Christy was 33 (and retired Gruden's first year)

You were probably looking at Sear +5 over Cosey Coleman.

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