I have a feeling...

[mtnman]

Would you guys object to the Bucs passing on CJ.. Trading down with Minn to get an additional 2nd and 3rd?

I'd make that deal, especially if the Bucs lose the flip.

That would work.

[TURBO]

Just those additions alone + the return / possible return of Sapp, Kelly, and Simeon).

Where did this possible return of Sapp come from?

I was wondering the same thing...

I'd love to have him back though, that way he could retire a BUC, as it should be...

[Mohawkbucs]

Would you guys object to the Bucs passing on CJ.. Trading down with Minn to get an additional 2nd and 3rd?

Yes, in a heartbeat, this draft is deep, a good wr like paul williams may be available in later rounds maybe, and we still have stovall, if we could get good players on d that would be great

[Boid Fink]

That the recent hirings on defense  (Raheem Morris, Larry Coyer, ect..) could mean the Bucs will once again draft heavy on Offense. Just those additions alone + the return / possible return of Sapp, Kelly, and Simeon). Resigning and maturity of D. White. Our D may rise into the top 15. (Which is where I think Gruden wants us to be. )

I wouldnt be surprised to see us try to land CJ and nail one of the top LT's. This means we may leverage our 2nd rounders to get into the top 20 with for additional pick.

The difference between the BUcs defense of last year, to being top 15 is only about two slots away.  They need more people that can actually play, while the addition doesn't hurt any, they still need the personnel.  Being top 5 is something I would shoot for.  Not top 15, or even top 10.

[bucpimpin]

That the recent hirings on defense (Raheem Morris, Larry Coyer, ect..) could mean the Bucs will once again draft heavy on Offense. Just those additions alone + the return / possible return of Sapp, Kelly, and Simeon). Resigning and maturity of D. White. Our D may rise into the top 15. (Which is where I think Gruden wants us to be. )

I wouldnt be surprised to see us try to land CJ and nail one of the top LT's. This means we may leverage our 2nd rounders to get into the top 20 with for additional pick.

The difference between the BUcs defense of last year, to being top 15 is only about two slots away. They need more people that can actually play, while the addition doesn't hurt any, they still need the personnel. Being top 5 is something I would shoot for. Not top 15, or even top 10.

I agree.. I just dont think Gruden would rather have a top 5 O and a top 15 D than a top 5 D and top 15 O.

[Mellow]

I agree, and I think it's sad.  My guess is Gruden sees the defense like a fantasy player: you know, "Bucs defense", worth about as much attention as any individual offensive player.  He'd be happy with an average defense, and #17 isn't far off.  If he can keep the defense 'average' by tinkering with coaching (essentially free), maybe pick up a mid-level FA to appease Monte and the 'defense wins championships' crowd (like ME!) he'll do it.  That way he gets to pick up more toys for his offensive juggernaut. 

I say it's sad because I really do believe defense wins championships.  Indy is there this year only because there defense picked it up (and Dungy has reinforced it heavily in the past drafts).  Chicago is clearly a defensive team.  Sure every once in a while an offensive team wins, but more often than not it's defense. 

I love how everyone blames Gru....Gruden wants what wins, you don't think he doesn't want his D good? The defense really hasn't shown it's age until now.

As far as King Lord My Messiah Dungy and the Colts, when you have one of the greatest QB-WR combos, a great 2nd WR, a great OL, and some good RBs, what else IS there to focus on?

[wc24]

Although CJ is enticing, the Bucs need OL and DL - so if there was a quality OL or DL player available with the Viking's pick, I'd make it.  I just don't think CJ will be what it takes to make the Bucs a contender again - but a very good OL will.

No one player will make the Bucs a contender again....with the possible exception of QB. What will make the Bucs contenders is a collection of upgrades done through FA and draft. If CJ is the best possible WR upgrade while filling in the needs on the DL and OL in FA or other picks in the draft then that is the way to go. Conversly, if there are upgrades at WR elsewhere and the Bucs can get a Thomas for LT then that's the way to go.

[keeponbucn]

I agree, and I think it's sad. My guess is Gruden sees the defense like a fantasy player: you know, "Bucs defense", worth about as much attention as any individual offensive player. He'd be happy with an average defense, and #17 isn't far off. If he can keep the defense 'average' by tinkering with coaching (essentially free), maybe pick up a mid-level FA to appease Monte and the 'defense wins championships' crowd (like ME!) he'll do it. That way he gets to pick up more toys for his offensive juggernaut.

I say it's sad because I really do believe defense wins championships. Indy is there this year only because there defense picked it up (and Dungy has reinforced it heavily in the past drafts). Chicago is clearly a defensive team. Sure every once in a while an offensive team wins, but more often than not it's defense.

I got a call it like it is, you're a clown. I could sit here and lie saying "I respect your opinion" but won't. Your "guess" is what's fantasy in all of this. If anyone saw what Gruden did on Oakland you wouldn't have these "fantasises" about what you think he's thinking. F*cking ridiculous mind-set.

I agree, and I think it's sad. My guess is Gruden sees the defense like a fantasy player: you know, "Bucs defense", worth about as much attention as any individual offensive player. He'd be happy with an average defense, and #17 isn't far off. If he can keep the defense 'average' by tinkering with coaching (essentially free), maybe pick up a mid-level FA to appease Monte and the 'defense wins championships' crowd (like ME!) he'll do it. That way he gets to pick up more toys for his offensive juggernaut.

I say it's sad because I really do believe defense wins championships. Indy is there this year only because there defense picked it up (and Dungy has reinforced it heavily in the past drafts). Chicago is clearly a defensive team. Sure every once in a while an offensive team wins, but more often than not it's defense.

Yeah, Gruden NEVER acknowledged the defense being the reason we won the SB. He thinks his crappy offense won us SB37.

I agree, and I think it's sad. My guess is Gruden sees the defense like a fantasy player: you know, "Bucs defense", worth about as much attention as any individual offensive player. He'd be happy with an average defense, and #17 isn't far off. If he can keep the defense 'average' by tinkering with coaching (essentially free), maybe pick up a mid-level FA to appease Monte and the 'defense wins championships' crowd (like ME!) he'll do it. That way he gets to pick up more toys for his offensive juggernaut.

I say it's sad because I really do believe defense wins championships. Indy is there this year only because there defense picked it up (and Dungy has reinforced it heavily in the past drafts). Chicago is clearly a defensive team. Sure every once in a while an offensive team wins, but more often than not it's defense.

Yeah, Gruden NEVER acknowledged the defense being the reason we won the SB. He thinks his crappy offense won us SB37.

Of course, and King Dungy has NEVER had a bad draft.

I agree, and I think it's sad. My guess is Gruden sees the defense like a fantasy player: you know, "Bucs defense", worth about as much attention as any individual offensive player. He'd be happy with an average defense, and #17 isn't far off. If he can keep the defense 'average' by tinkering with coaching (essentially free), maybe pick up a mid-level FA to appease Monte and the 'defense wins championships' crowd (like ME!) he'll do it. That way he gets to pick up more toys for his offensive juggernaut.

I say it's sad because I really do believe defense wins championships. Indy is there this year only because there defense picked it up (and Dungy has reinforced it heavily in the past drafts). Chicago is clearly a defensive team. Sure every once in a while an offensive team wins, but more often than not it's defense.

Yeah, Gruden NEVER acknowledged the defense being the reason we won the SB. He thinks his crappy offense won us SB37.

Of course, and King Dungy has NEVER had a bad draft.

Dungy is to drafting what Johan Santana is to pitching. Jeez haven't you firgured that out yet?

I agree, and I think it's sad. My guess is Gruden sees the defense like a fantasy player: you know, "Bucs defense", worth about as much attention as any individual offensive player. He'd be happy with an average defense, and #17 isn't far off. If he can keep the defense 'average' by tinkering with coaching (essentially free), maybe pick up a mid-level FA to appease Monte and the 'defense wins championships' crowd (like ME!) he'll do it. That way he gets to pick up more toys for his offensive juggernaut.

I say it's sad because I really do believe defense wins championships. Indy is there this year only because there defense picked it up (and Dungy has reinforced it heavily in the past drafts). Chicago is clearly a defensive team. Sure every once in a while an offensive team wins, but more often than not it's defense.

Yeah, Gruden NEVER acknowledged the defense being the reason we won the SB. He thinks his crappy offense won us SB37.

Of course, and King Dungy has NEVER had a bad draft.

Dungy is to drafting what Johan Santana is to pitching. Jeez haven't you firgured that out yet?

Indeed, Quezy and Anthony were his 'junk pitches'.

[Skull and Bones]

I love how everyone blames Gru....Gruden wants what wins, you don't think he doesn't want his D good? The defense really hasn't shown it's age until now.

As far as King Lord My Messiah Dungy and the Colts, when you have one of the greatest QB-WR combos, a great 2nd WR, a great OL, and some good RBs, what else IS there to focus on?

If Gruden didn't care about his Defense he wouldn't have fired Burns and Franklin.  He's trying to save his own neck this upcoming season and do whatever he thinks will help win games.

I think we should resign Sapp (did he ever really leave?), keep Rice (LOL I kno!), Spires, Ronde, Kelly, bring Brad Culpepper back out (sure he lost a few lbs but he was the most consistent NT we ever had) and to put the final touch on things bring Hardy Nickerson out of the booth and relegate 48 year old Shelton Quarles back to ST duties