Not to make too much of the overthrown passes but

[DanTurksGhost]

Gannon said it a couple times when grads missed wrs that ended drives, so if you dont believe me then believe him.

Of course he did. He also made plays that kept drives alive, and he did throw the winning TD pass. Cadillac didn't run it in, nor did Mike Alstott. Nobody bailed the kid out on fourth down with the game on the line. He found his primary receiver covered, he made the smart play and went to his #2 option, and put the ball where it needed to be in order to make the winning score.

Nowhere did I say that Gradkowski played a flawless game. He had mistakes, plenty of them. However, I believe that unlike some other QB's, this kid has what it takes to get better and better in this system, which is a match for his style and talents.

Yes, defense, the run game, the OL, all contributed. That's why this game is a team game. But to dismiss the heart and grit a rookie showed in his second NFL start, needing a TD to win and staring down a 4th and four with less than a minute to go, is petty.

[JasonOfthetower]

Boid, I understand what your saying...people are going Grads ga-ga. And you're right. The defense held us in this ballgame against a fantastic offense. But its all for not if Gradkowski doesn't get us down the field and in the endzone. Are there some flaws in his game? Yeah, there is. But I don't think its anything that can't be fixed with reps and timing.  Joe Montana never had the greatest deep ball. Neither does Tom Brady. Not everyone can be Peyton Manning or Favre.

But there's a lot of good with Grads. Since Jon has gotten here, he's never had a QB that fit his offense. Brad Johnson - Statue. Brian Griese- a drop back passer. Simms - a drop back passer. This is the first "Gannon-like" QB he has had in Tampa Bay. Did we light up the scoreboard today? No, but Bruce and the offense kept the chains moving and the defense fresh. We dominated TOP and kept that powerful Bunghole offense off the field.

I think you're being a little hard on the kid. Everyone was Simms crazy too, and the NFL can be very fickle. But if you can't see that this kid as a little something special then...I don't know, I think we're watching two different games.

He SHOULD be throwing 3 ints a game. He SHOULD be overthrowing receivers. He SHOULD be F'ing up. That's what rookie QBs in the NFL do. They shouldn't be leading their team down the field on a game winning touchdown drive.

That's why people are excited about him.

Simms was in the league 3 years before he took over as a starter. Bruce is entering his second month of his first regular season in the NFL.

I'm not saying he's going to be the second coming or anything...but to deny what he's done and complain about what he didn't do in my humble opinion is just plain silly.

 

[Boid Fink]

i cant speak for boid but i think all of us support grads and want him to do well, but being critical of his play is not being unsupportive.

I was never unsupportive of the Bucs starting QB.  Not once.

I was being critical.  But I guess if I get lumped into Dalbucs category, that is a bad thing right?  PLease.

I repeat, Grads managed a game well.  That is all he did today.

Please note the run game, and the defense before continuing.

[Boid Fink]

Boid, I understand what your saying...people are going Grads ga-ga. And you're right. The defense held us in this ballgame against a fantastic offense. But its all for not if Gradkowski doesn't get us down the field and in the endzone. Are there some flaws in his game? Yeah, there is. But I don't think its anything that can't be fixed with reps and timing. Joe Montana never had the greatest deep ball. Neither does Tom Brady. Not everyone can be Peyton Manning or Favre.

But there's a lot of good with Grads. Since Jon has gotten here, he's never had a QB that fit his offense. Brad Johnson - Statue. Brian Griese- a drop back passer. Simms - a drop back passer. This is the first "Gannon-like" QB he has had in Tampa Bay. Did we light up the scoreboard today? No, but Bruce and the offense kept the chains moving and the defense fresh. We dominated TOP and kept that powerful Bunghole offense off the field.

I think you're being a little hard on the kid. Everyone was Simms crazy too, and the NFL can be very fickle. But if you can't see that this kid as a little something special then...I don't know, I think we're watching two different games.

He SHOULD be throwing 3 ints a game. He SHOULD be overthrowing receivers. He SHOULD be F'ing up. That's what rookie QBs in the NFL do. They shouldn't be leading their team down the field on a game winning touchdown drive.

That's why people are excited about him.

Simms was in the league 3 years before he took over as a starter. Bruce is entering his second month of his first regular season in the NFL.

I'm not saying he's going to be the second coming or anything...but to deny what he's done and complain about what he didn't do in my humble opinion is just plain silly.

 

Please quote a post in which I was being any harder on Grads than you are being right now?

Yeah.  I thought so.

But since I am one of the first guys to make note of his lousy passes today, I get the shidt end of the stick?  Please get real.

I am noting his flaws are exactly that:  his flaws.  His big knock is that he cannot throw a deep ball, his range.  And today he tried to throw deep balls and they looked very very bad.  Worse than anything Shaun King could throw actually.  No where NEAR his target.  And he was lucky to escape with the sole pick in the game.  He managed a game well, that is all.  I give more credit to Caddy (TOP), and to the defense.

[DanTurksGhost]

Please note the run game, and the defense before continuing.

And why do you suppose the run game got better the moment another QB took over? And why did the OL suddenly stop allowing the QB's passes to get batted back into his face? And is it possible that an offense that is better able to control TOP has helped the defense to play better?

Just some things to think about.

[simms22]

Boid, I understand what your saying...people are going Grads ga-ga. And you're right. The defense held us in this ballgame against a fantastic offense. But its all for not if Gradkowski doesn't get us down the field and in the endzone. Are there some flaws in his game? Yeah, there is. But I don't think its anything that can't be fixed with reps and timing. Joe Montana never had the greatest deep ball. Neither does Tom Brady. Not everyone can be Peyton Manning or Favre.

But there's a lot of good with Grads. Since Jon has gotten here, he's never had a QB that fit his offense. Brad Johnson - Statue. Brian Griese- a drop back passer. Simms - a drop back passer. This is the first "Gannon-like" QB he has had in Tampa Bay. Did we light up the scoreboard today? No, but Bruce and the offense kept the chains moving and the defense fresh. We dominated TOP and kept that powerful Bunghole offense off the field.

I think you're being a little hard on the kid. Everyone was Simms crazy too, and the NFL can be very fickle. But if you can't see that this kid as a little something special then...I don't know, I think we're watching two different games.

He SHOULD be throwing 3 ints a game. He SHOULD be throwing picks. He SHOULD be F'ing up. That's what rookie QBs in the NFL do. They shouldn't be leading their team down the field on a game winning touchdown drive.

That's why people are excited about him.

Simms was in the league 3 years before he took over as a starter. Bruce is entering his second month of his first regular season in the NFL.

I'm not saying he's going to be the second coming or anything...but to deny what he's done and complain about what he didn't do in my humble opinion is just plain silly.

 

im happy with what he did on that last drive, but before that i felt like we left points off the board. We had good field position a couple times and couldnt of capitalized. He got lucky a few times with some dropped ints and bad calls which wont happen every game. Gannon pointed out grads pros and cons today, which is essentially what we are trying to do. His supposed weaknesses were the deep ball which honestly today was subpar, not saying he cant improve but just pointing it out. He missed open wrs and made some mistakes but thats expected as a rookie. After 2 games its alittle premature to declare him the future of the bucs. Simms had a couple of great games last year and people were ready to give him the reigns permanently.

[nitey]

I thought that Grads showed some pretty decent arm on his long ball. Yes, he overthrew his recievers badly, but more than a few of those throws were as good as I've seen in the NFL as far as distance and velocity. Grads showed me today that his supposed 'lack of a big arm' isn't quite as advertised. Simms throws a better deep ball, but Grads arm is better than I thought. Much better.

As far as his performance, considering that the Bengals had some game tape on Grads, it wasn't bad at all. I was especially encouraged that after going 9 of 20 in the 1st half, Grads was able to connect on 16 of 24 (66%) in the 2nd half. That not only indicates that Gruden made some changes, but Grads made some too. I also like the fact that when the game was on the line (twice) he's responded and given his team the lead twice late in the 4th quarter. Rookies don't do that much and Grads is 2 for 2.

So encouraged? Damn Straight. The telling game will be the next one against Philly IMO. The Eagles will have 2 full games of tape to study, one against a common foe. But count me as on the Great Gradowski bandwagon, I do believe that Grads is our QB for next year and beyond.

I guess what I see that I didn't see before with the other Buc QB's is what has already been mentioned on this board so I'm not going to go into that.

But what I really like, really appreciate about Gradowski is that this guy is what football is all about. It's taking on that LB with a solid driving block when all that was needed was to get in front of him to keep him from making the play. It's about chasing down the guy that intercepted you, and tearing off his helmet as if to say 'how DARE you! I'll make you pay!'. It's about refusing to go down, finding a way to make that play to keep the critical drive alive, but also knowing when the play is over and giving up and not costing the team distance as well as the down.  It's about making that hard count to draw the opposing defensive line offsides in your 2nd freaking game (good job rookie! Some vet QB's can't do that).

Some say that Gradowski reminds them of Gannon, or perhaps Garcia. I see a Farve with a dash of Brady. Maybe Lord Farve's game isn't what it used to be, but when you think of competitiviness you think of Farve. The dash of Brady comes from (hopefully) not being quite the gunslinger that Brett was. I think Grads would fail, or at best be a average QB in a traditional offense. However, I think he will be close to brilliant in this one (I really believe that). Gruden is exactly the right coach for Bruce and this is the right offense with the right parts for him to be successful.

I believe that this is the guy that Gruden has been waiting for and I think Gruden knew it in the pre-season. I believe deep in his heart, he knew this is the guy he wanted to QB his team, but his head said that Chris should get his chance first, but I don't think he was ever fair to Chris. Gruden took a long time to modify his game plans to Chris's strengths, almost reluctantly making belated changes in the 2nd half of the Carolina game. However, with Gradowski, Gruden's play calling has changed, it's taken on a new life - again almost if he's excited to run the next play just to see how it would work. Double end around? Who runs those any more? The quick slants were there almost all the game. There were recievers open in the seams today that Gradowski just missed. That will change.

I never wrote like this about any of Simms games. I was happy as everyone else was when we kept winning last year with Chris, but the offense never seemed 'right'. Simms was still a caretaker, not a driver of the offense.

Bruce is a driver. I believe he's going to take this offense places it has never been before. And I think we will see it this season. I really do.

It's only two games, only 2 games plus a phenominal pre-season. But this guy is the right guy in the right system.

[simms22]

And why do you suppose the run game got better the moment another QB took over? And why did the OL suddenly stop allowing the QB's passes to get batted back into his face? And is it possible that an offense that is better able to control TOP has helped the defense to play better?

Just some things to think about.

as far as the running game, the bengals had one of the worst run d's in the nfl, thats a known fact. We should of ran it more IMO. Cadillac didnt run well today because of Gradkowski, thats a bunch of crap. It was a bad team against the run, everyone in the nfl knows that.

[DanTurksGhost]

He got lucky a few times with some dropped ints and bad calls which wont happen every game.

Bad calls?

[simms22]

Bad calls?

um like the roughing the passer in which he fumbled and turned the ball over... collinsworth and jimmie johnson were laughing at that call.

[Boid Fink]

And why do you suppose the run game got better the moment another QB took over? And why did the OL suddenly stop allowing the QB's passes to get batted back into his face? And is it possible that an offense that is better able to control TOP has helped the defense to play better?

Just some things to think about.

Now flip that comment the direction I was steering it, and you should get the exact same point.

Nostradamus.  Einstein.  Just some things for YOU to think about.


Stop being such a Gradkowski homer.  It makes your arguments sound thin.  As poorly as Simms played this year, practically ANYONE could have come in and made the Bucs pass attack look better.  Of course, the Bucs had no run game, the defense as giving up huge chunks of ground, the O-line was porous as your nose...and these things don't make a QB play better or worse?

We could have had Peyton Manning back there against the Ravens, and he would have looked bad.  We could have had Montana against the Birds, but getting gashed on the ground and having picks overturned don't count?  The defense didn't stop the Panthers from kicking that last second field goal?  

Get a grip DTG.  There are many fingers to point the blame at, but all of yours are aimed at Simms for some reason.  I watch just as many Buc games as you do.  And your groin lust for Grads is obvious.

[DanTurksGhost]

As poorly as Simms played this year, practically ANYONE could have come in and made the Bucs pass attack look better.

On that we can agree. Simms was absolutely terrible.

Get a grip DTG.  There are many fingers to point the blame at, but all of yours are aimed at Simms for some reason.

See above. The blame goes where it belongs. Simms killed the Bucs offense this year.

[DanTurksGhost]

um like the roughing the passer in which he fumbled and turned the ball over... collinsworth and jimmie johnson were laughing at that call.

Which? If you're talking about the roughing call on the winning TD drive, the call was 100% absolutely correct.

[Boid Fink]

On that we can agree. Simms was absolutely terrible.

See above. The blame goes where it belongs. Simms killed the Bucs offense this year.

Do you honestly think anyone could have won the game for us versus the Falcons?

Do you think Simms played so badly as to cost the Bucs the game versus Carolina?

Do you think Joe Montana could have beaten the Ravens in week 1?

Please.

Once again, stop being a Grads homer, and answer my prior questions.

[simms22]

On that we can agree. Simms was absolutely terrible.

See above. The blame goes where it belongs. Simms killed the Bucs offense this year.

simms played bad, yes thats obvious. But simms didnt give up so many rushing yards against ATL or not be able to cover keyshawn when we played the panthers. This is a team, and while simms played bad the rest of the team wasnt exactly stellar.