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quezilla

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#15 : January 29, 2007, 02:31:44 PM

No matter what happens, i hope the Buc's do not pull a move similar to Buffalo last year when they selected Donte Whitner with the 6th overall pick.  Tampa has already shown signs of "reaching" in the past with Davin Joseph, and Barret Rudd.  If we want the guy, and he will probably be on the board a few draft spots later, we need to try and trade down.  I could see this happening with Carriker or Okoye.




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#16 : January 29, 2007, 02:34:53 PM

I don't know what I will do if we select Carriker at 3/4.

alldaway

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#17 : January 29, 2007, 02:35:24 PM

Ruud was never a reach.

But I agree say no to a safety in the top ten.

Feel Real Good

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#18 : January 29, 2007, 02:38:09 PM

I don't rip teams too bad for so-called reaches. The player just needs to turn out to be a stud. Does anyone rip Seattle for taking Tatupu in the 2nd round? No, because he turned out to be really good. By all accounts Whitner has been pretty good, at least as good as Michael Huff who the Raiders grabbed one pick earlier everyone seemed to be cool with.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#19 : January 29, 2007, 02:39:07 PM

Yeah Rudd just never made sense. Ideally you would want your R2 pick to contribute in year one and flat out start in year 2. We'll see though, hopefully this year he plays more and we can get a better look. Quarles has been a nice player for us though, so tough to beat him out. Wish we would have drafted another position there.

Geez I hope they don't reach either buddy. I think we will be fine though!



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#20 : January 29, 2007, 02:58:05 PM

Yeah Rudd just never made sense. Ideally you would want your R2 pick to contribute in year one and flat out start in year 2. We'll see though, hopefully this year he plays more and we can get a better look. Quarles has been a nice player for us though, so tough to beat him out. Wish we would have drafted another position there.

The Ruud situation seems to be more of a case of Shelton just playin' his ass off, and nobody saw that coming. Gotta figure Ruud will eventually take over, but you don't want to replace the QB of your defense while he's still playing at a high level until it's absolutely necessary.

And it's also nice to know that if Shelton goes down, we have a capable, experienced player to step in. Point being he was a good pick.








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#21 : January 29, 2007, 03:02:16 PM

What's Ruud got left on his contract 2 yrs ?

alldaway

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#22 : January 29, 2007, 03:05:07 PM

Correct.

In 2009 Ruud becomes a RFA.



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#23 : January 29, 2007, 03:12:48 PM

I don't know what I will do if we select Carriker at 3/4.
Wouldn't happen...

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#24 : January 29, 2007, 05:40:12 PM

If drafting a "safe" player is reaching, the other option is to draft a player with more upside, but with more chance to bust.  Niether Joseph or Ruud are busts. They were both good unspectacular but safe picks.   If thats "reaching" then so be it, but most of the time when you talk about reaching you are talking about wishing and hoping that a player has more than what most people think. That really wasn't the case with Joseph or Ruud. The "experts" respected both of those players. They were high production, dependable character guys from big time programs.  The Bucs simply wanted to make sure they got some production out of their players, rather than taking a high risk high reward player.


Beautifully stated. That's how you build long-term stability and success.

And it's the main reason I have always stopped short of calling for Gruden's head. Even tho I've criticized him plenty, day 1 of the last two drafts have appeared to actually be part of a plan, that is, to shore up the biggest weaknesses on the team. RB, LB, OL, TE..

I'd like to see that trend continue...






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#25 : January 29, 2007, 06:40:33 PM

i'm not knocking Quarles performance for his age, and i think we've more than gotten our value out of him as a player.  the point was that the defense gets torn up in the running game and he makes too many tackles 3+ yards beyond the LOS.  i don't buy the number of tackles stats because they aren't telling at all.  a good lb fills holes at the LOS.  that comes in the form of taking on a lead block or stuffing a RB.  i did think Q was better at filling against the lead blocker than in the past, but he got horrific support at the point of attack.  we were gashed between the tackles and that ain't supposed to happen against a gap responsibility D.

if you look purely at the number of tackles as a metric for success then you miss the valuation of the player at the position.  good example would be Booger making tackles against New England 10 yards down field.  i'd grade him high on effort and pursuit, but i wouldn't grade him high if the run came through his gap responsibility and he was merely chasing the play after he failed at the point of attack.

i'm a defensive minded fan, former lb myself (not a pro by any stretch), and big fan of good linebacker play.  we obviously put more stock in how quickly he can cover deep middle in the T2 defense which makes us slow to react to the run (possibly - looking for reasons).  almost like we take the first step backwards like an outfielder - easier to come forward than get back???

if a young Ruud was athletic enough he should have easily replaced an aging Q who was a long shot to make it in the NFL much less become a Pro Bowl caliber player.  maybe he can't/hasn't picked up the scheme, who knows.  but you'll never convince me that two players of comparable skills where one is younger and cheaper, that the older and expensive model is the keeper - not in the nfl.  something is missing in the Ruud kid or he would have leapfrogged Q...  happens everywhere else in the nfl.

the two linebackers that played alot of special teams: Cash?  don't know the other guy's name?  i think those guys are very athletic and will be heard from next camp...

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#26 : January 29, 2007, 07:14:37 PM

keith mallard and jaime winborn (antione cash was the one ya named)...winborn may make playing time noise, but cash and mallard are nfl special teamers!!!!which absolutely is not a bad thing at all....

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#27 : January 29, 2007, 09:05:29 PM

I agree with Phist in that Ruud in his second year should have dethroned Q by now.  Q had a few good years for the Bucs, but this season was a horrible failure, and the defense got trampled just as much as the offense was anemic.  He DOES get a lot of tackles, but he doesn't force fumbles, he isn't a high impact hitter, and he seldom is making plays at the LOS as said.  Ruud HAS to earn the job this year because being a third year, low second round linebacker has high expectation labels plastered all over it, and to be outshined by a 36 year old "stabilizer" is a sign, IMO.

Of course Kiffin could care less how old you are.  He just wants to know if you can make the play happen.

But conventional wisdom says Ruud had better make it happen this upcoming year.




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#28 : January 30, 2007, 09:14:30 AM

a good lb fills holes at the LOS. 

Yes, and part of that is due to the D-line play.  Quarles had a career year in 2005, when the D-line was playing well.  This year, he was making plays a bit farther off the LOS.



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#29 : January 30, 2007, 09:18:14 AM

I agree with Phist in that Ruud in his second year should have dethroned Q by now.  Q had a few good years for the Bucs, but this season was a horrible failure, and the defense got trampled just as much as the offense was anemic.  He DOES get a lot of tackles, but he doesn't force fumbles, he isn't a high impact hitter, and he seldom is making plays at the LOS as said.  Ruud HAS to earn the job this year because being a third year, low second round linebacker has high expectation labels plastered all over it, and to be outshined by a 36 year old "stabilizer" is a sign, IMO.

Of course Kiffin could care less how old you are.  He just wants to know if you can make the play happen.

But conventional wisdom says Ruud had better make it happen this upcoming year.

I think Ruud will get more playing/starting time this year.  However, it's no secret that D-line play greatly effects the play of the LBs.  With the D-line play we got this year, it's no surprise that Quarles wasn't more of an impact player.  Poor D-line play made the other 7 defenders on the field look alot worse this year.
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