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pewtersurf

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#15 : January 31, 2007, 10:02:22 AM

Guess that little fact should have been a Dirty Dozen HM.

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TEAMCALI

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#16 : January 31, 2007, 10:11:31 AM

IT'S just the beginning ...   bwwaahhhahahhaahahaha


PewterReportHM

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#17 : January 31, 2007, 10:20:17 AM

Should have been a Dirty Dozen.............I got to 12 without it though...........

The other one I left off that I thought was good (in the Doug Williams QB vein) was what reporter was going to ask Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith how long they'd been black coaches............

HM

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#18 : January 31, 2007, 10:52:35 AM

You know it's coming. I bet they already have propared answers.

                \'Every day above ground is a good day\'

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#19 : January 31, 2007, 11:46:52 AM

Very true.  McKay had some great drafts on the defensive side of the ball, but his offensive drafts and FA signings were uneven to be kind.

Which great draftees on defense? Regan Upshaw? Marcus Jones? Jermaine Phillips? Nate Webster? Booger?

His misses, even on defense, far outweigh his hits.

alldaway

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#20 : January 31, 2007, 12:02:06 PM

McKay may have missed picking defensive players high but he did a good job of drafting defensive talent in the late rounds (Eg Wyms).

McKay is crucified too much here by the Grudenistas (sorry it makes my sentence very dramatic :) ) but reality is he is not that bad of a cap manager.  McKay believes that turnover will eventually happen but with the right restructure you will not have to do it for a while (especially if you establish who your core players are).  Allen does not rely on restructuring as much as McKay but voidable deals in a way can deplete a team of players except you gain cap space when a player decides to void his deal to hit free agency.  This gives you cap money to go find a replacement for the lost player.


keeponbucn

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#21 : January 31, 2007, 12:18:10 PM

McKay is crucified too much here by the Grudenistas (sorry it makes my sentence very dramatic :) ) but reality is he is not that bad of a cap manager. McKay believes that turnover will eventually happen but with the right restructure you will not have to do it for a while (especially if you establish who your core players are). Allen does not rely on restructuring as much as McKay but voidable deals in a way can deplete a team of players except you gain cap space when a player decides to void his deal to hit free agency. This gives you cap money to go find a replacement for the lost player.


McKay's an awful cap manager, awful. Take a look at ATL right now and what the Bucs have had to handle over the past 3 years and tell me differently.

I know it was for dramatics but for someone to hate McKay doesn't automatically make them a Grudenista.



alldaway

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#22 : January 31, 2007, 12:27:25 PM

Atlanta is not that bad of shape.  They whiffed on two defensive free agents seeing as they are oft injured but they have defensive talent to work with.  Norwood will easily replace Dunn and Crumpler is a Pro Bowl caliber TE.  Defensively with some good coaching the Falcons defense will be a good unit.  It is the offense that Petrino needs to work on (OL and WR's).  Atlanta's offense will be that much more dynamic compared to Knapp's conservative version ala Mooch.

They have draft picks to work with and with a few cuts and restructures they will be okay.   The Falcons will not be big players in free agency.  But they do not really need to be if Petrino impliments his offensive system properly and Zimmer maxes out the potential of the Falcons D that has talent to work with.  The Falcons have underachieved with the talent they have had to work with the last two years and that is why Mora received the axe.

I have stated this a thousand times but it always ultimately comes down to coaching.   We shall see what Petrino and Zimmer can do.

keeponbucn

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#23 : January 31, 2007, 12:37:48 PM

Atlanta is not that bad of shape.  They whiffed on two defensive free agents seeing as they are oft injured but they have defensive talent to work with.  Norwood will easily replace Dunn and Crumpler is a Pro Bowl caliber TE.  Defensively with some good coaching the Falcons defense will be a good unit.  It is the offense that Petrino needs to work on (OL and WR's).  Atlanta's offense will be that much more dynamic compared to Knapp's conservative version ala Mooch.

They have draft picks to work with and with a few cuts and restructures they will be okay.   The Falcons will not be big players in free agency.  But they do not really need to be if Petrino impliments his offensive system properly and Zimmer maxes out the potential of the Falcons D that has talent to work with. The Falcons have underachieved with the talent they have had to work with the last two years and that is why Mora received the axe.

I have stated this a thousand times but it always ultimately comes down to coaching.   We shall see what Petrino and Zimmer can do.


Fair enough and I agree for the most part other than the cap up in ATL. They can have him, IMO, he's grossly overrated and it will show soon enough in ATL, actually it's already begun.

quezilla

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#24 : January 31, 2007, 01:29:48 PM

Very true. McKay had some great drafts on the defensive side of the ball, but his offensive drafts and FA signings were uneven to be kind.

Worst of all, signing so many players to ridiculous contracts AFTER the Bucs won the Super Bowl screwed the team for years. For all the whining about Steussie, Garner, Stinchcomb and Deese, their cap hit was 4% of total cap space when we got rid of them. The signing bonuses McKay gave out to Brad, Keyshawn, Rice, Quarles, McFarland, Gramatica etc were over $60mm.........The Bucs were cooked from a cap perspective.

I mean, who gives a 7 year contract for a kicker?

Oh, and did you know that the deal McKay signed Rice to FIVE YEARS AGO is STILL the richest contract ever for a defensive player? That fact astounds me.

HM

You bring up some good points about Gramatica & Rice.


RedAlert

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#25 : January 31, 2007, 01:30:18 PM

I wouldn't even grant RM credit for the good draft picks in Tampa, really.

When you see what Jerry Angelo has done with player personel in Chicago, what John Idzik has collected the last few years in Arizona and the fact that Tim Ruskell was highly coveted enough to be named a GM for Seattle, you see where the success of "Rich McKay's" drafts came from. Excellent scouting and evaluation outside his office.

But to be fair, you also can't hold McKay solely responsibility for the Marcus Joneses and Reidel Anthonys..



  

leeroyselmon07

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#26 : January 31, 2007, 04:07:49 PM

Mckay sucks and the Falcons suck!


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#27 : January 31, 2007, 04:22:27 PM

I Like Rich Mckay seemed like a nice enough guy. However, the mythology that he spawned in Tampa with the constant fawning media was ridiculous.  Remember when the local media assured us all that he would be the commissioner of the NFL?

Remember Capologist extraordinaire??


Sorry, but the factual record dimisses those statements as fantasy!


If you really want a good laugh go on the Dan Sileo show and criticize McKay...  Dan bends down before a McKay statue every morning.

PewterReportHM

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#28 : January 31, 2007, 04:23:32 PM

DTG-

I think saying McKay didn't draft good defensive players is a bit mean.  Here is the list on his watch from 1995-2002  that I think worked out reasonably well given where the Bucs drafted them.

Sapp
Brooks
Donnie Abraham
Ronde Barber
Al Singleton
Brian Kelly
Dexter Jackson
Nate Webster
Dwight Smith
Ellis Wyms
Jermaine Phillips

Even if you say McFarland wasn't worth the 15th overall pick, most of these guys have gone on to have pretty good careers-----and the number of day 2 guys on the list is pretty impressive.  Heck, even Joe Tafoya, who McKay picked in the 7th round, stuck around in the NFL.

He's missed some guys, and he is especially terrible on offense (wide receiver and offensive line are just vague notions to him), but McKay's drafts built the core of a SuperBowl defense............can't take that away from him.

HM

ABuccs Fan

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#29 : January 31, 2007, 04:25:25 PM

DTG-

I think saying McKay didn't draft good defensive players is a bit mean.  Here is the list on his watch from 1995-2002  that I think worked out reasonably well given where the Bucs drafted them.

Sapp
Brooks
Donnie Abraham
Ronde Barber
Al Singleton
Brian Kelly
Dexter Jackson
Nate Webster
Dwight Smith
Ellis Wyms
Jermaine Phillips

Even if you say McFarland wasn't worth the 15th overall pick, most of these guys have gone on to have pretty good careers-----and the number of day 2 guys on the list is pretty impressive.  Heck, even Joe Tafoya, who McKay picked in the 7th round, stuck around in the NFL.

He's missed some guys, and he is especially terrible on offense (wide receiver and offensive line are just vague notions to him), but McKay's drafts built the core of a SuperBowl defense............can't take that away from him.

HM
You're supposed to be the top dog, and you included Sapp and Brooks on that list????
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