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boredomkills01

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#30 : January 31, 2007, 05:33:14 PM

DTG-

I think saying McKay didn't draft good defensive players is a bit mean.  Here is the list on his watch from 1995-2002  that I think worked out reasonably well given where the Bucs drafted them.

Sapp
Brooks
Donnie Abraham
Ronde Barber
Al Singleton
Brian Kelly
Dexter Jackson
Nate Webster
Dwight Smith
Ellis Wyms
Jermaine Phillips

Even if you say McFarland wasn't worth the 15th overall pick, most of these guys have gone on to have pretty good careers-----and the number of day 2 guys on the list is pretty impressive.  Heck, even Joe Tafoya, who McKay picked in the 7th round, stuck around in the NFL.

He's missed some guys, and he is especially terrible on offense (wide receiver and offensive line are just vague notions to him), but McKay's drafts built the core of a SuperBowl defense............can't take that away from him.

HM
You're supposed to be the top dog, and you included Sapp and Brooks on that list????

Abuccs where are you coming from? Mckay did draft DB and Sapp?



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#31 : January 31, 2007, 05:52:00 PM

DTG-

I think saying McKay didn't draft good defensive players is a bit mean.  Here is the list on his watch from 1995-2002  that I think worked out reasonably well given where the Bucs drafted them.

Sapp
Brooks
Donnie Abraham
Ronde Barber
Al Singleton
Brian Kelly
Dexter Jackson
Nate Webster
Dwight Smith
Ellis Wyms
Jermaine Phillips

Even if you say McFarland wasn't worth the 15th overall pick, most of these guys have gone on to have pretty good careers-----and the number of day 2 guys on the list is pretty impressive.  Heck, even Joe Tafoya, who McKay picked in the 7th round, stuck around in the NFL.

He's missed some guys, and he is especially terrible on offense (wide receiver and offensive line are just vague notions to him), but McKay's drafts built the core of a SuperBowl defense............can't take that away from him.

HM
You're supposed to be the top dog, and you included Sapp and Brooks on that list????

Abuccs where are you coming from? Mckay did draft DB and Sapp?
Sam Wyche was in charge of player personel while he was head coach. Almost everyone knows this, and Scott Reynolds has confirmed this many times. Sure McKay was GM, but Wyche drafted Sapp and Brooks.

boredomkills01

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#32 : January 31, 2007, 06:25:11 PM

DTG-

I think saying McKay didn't draft good defensive players is a bit mean.  Here is the list on his watch from 1995-2002  that I think worked out reasonably well given where the Bucs drafted them.

Sapp
Brooks
Donnie Abraham
Ronde Barber
Al Singleton
Brian Kelly
Dexter Jackson
Nate Webster
Dwight Smith
Ellis Wyms
Jermaine Phillips

Even if you say McFarland wasn't worth the 15th overall pick, most of these guys have gone on to have pretty good careers-----and the number of day 2 guys on the list is pretty impressive.  Heck, even Joe Tafoya, who McKay picked in the 7th round, stuck around in the NFL.

He's missed some guys, and he is especially terrible on offense (wide receiver and offensive line are just vague notions to him), but McKay's drafts built the core of a SuperBowl defense............can't take that away from him.

HM
You're supposed to be the top dog, and you included Sapp and Brooks on that list????

Abuccs where are you coming from? Mckay did draft DB and Sapp?
Sam Wyche was in charge of player personel while he was head coach. Almost everyone knows this, and Scott Reynolds has confirmed this many times. Sure McKay was GM, but Wyche drafted Sapp and Brooks.
ahh ... well i think he was trying to put the players drafted in the "mckay Era" and I personally hate mckay but to think that the GM had absolutely no input in the teams draft is out of the question...



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#33 : January 31, 2007, 06:27:58 PM

DTG-

I think saying McKay didn't draft good defensive players is a bit mean.  Here is the list on his watch from 1995-2002  that I think worked out reasonably well given where the Bucs drafted them.

Sapp
Brooks
Donnie Abraham
Ronde Barber
Al Singleton
Brian Kelly
Dexter Jackson
Nate Webster
Dwight Smith
Ellis Wyms
Jermaine Phillips

Even if you say McFarland wasn't worth the 15th overall pick, most of these guys have gone on to have pretty good careers-----and the number of day 2 guys on the list is pretty impressive.  Heck, even Joe Tafoya, who McKay picked in the 7th round, stuck around in the NFL.

He's missed some guys, and he is especially terrible on offense (wide receiver and offensive line are just vague notions to him), but McKay's drafts built the core of a SuperBowl defense............can't take that away from him.

HM
You're supposed to be the top dog, and you included Sapp and Brooks on that list????

Abuccs where are you coming from? Mckay did draft DB and Sapp?
Sam Wyche was in charge of player personel while he was head coach. Almost everyone knows this, and Scott Reynolds has confirmed this many times. Sure McKay was GM, but Wyche drafted Sapp and Brooks.
ahh ... well i think he was trying to put the players drafted in the "mckay Era" and I personally hate mckay but to think that the GM had absolutely no input in the teams draft is out of the question...
Isn't that what the Allen bashers would have you believe is what's currently going on?

PewterReportHM

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#34 : January 31, 2007, 07:13:41 PM

ABF-

It is a bit unkind to think McKay had no say whatsoever in the 1995 draft.  Wyche clearly had input, and perhaps even a final decision, but he certainly didn't put the board together for the draft.

You can't give someone all of the blame and none of the credit.

HM

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#35 : January 31, 2007, 07:18:47 PM

ABF-

It is a bit unkind to think McKay had no say whatsoever in the 1995 draft.  Wyche clearly had input, and perhaps even a final decision, but he certainly didn't put the board together for the draft.

You can't give someone all of the blame and none of the credit.

HM
I think you have it reversed. McKay probably added his 2 cents worth, and Wyche said "sure kid, now go get me some coffee."

DanTurksGhost

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#36 : January 31, 2007, 08:30:46 PM

DTG-

I think saying McKay didn't draft good defensive players is a bit mean.  Here is the list on his watch from 1995-2002  that I think worked out reasonably well given where the Bucs drafted them.

Sapp
Brooks

Sapp and Brooks weren't Rich McKay's picks. I know for a fact: McKay wanted to stay put and draft Mike Mamula. Period. Fortunately for the Buccaneers, Sam Wyche still had final say on personnel issues at the time, and that included the draft. Wyche told McKay to trade down.

McKay was upset. He warned Wyche that passing on Mamula to make a trade was a mistake. Rusty Tillman, Sam's defensive coordinator, was going nuts. He was DYING for Sapp, and was sure the Vikings would take Sapp one pick before the Bucs, if Sapp even lasted that long. As history proves, the Vikes took Alexander. Then late in the round, when Brooks was still on the board, Rusty Tillman lobbied hard to get him. He compared Brooks to a guy he had previously coached, Rufus Porter.

Sam ordered McKay to try and trade back into the first round on Tillman's recommendation. They did it, and acquired Brooks.

That's how it went down. This I know for certain. Sapp and Brooks were due to the hard work of Sam Wyche and the absolute adamant lobbying of Rusty Tillman. If it were up to Rich McKay we'd have ended up with Mike Mamula.

DanTurksGhost

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#37 : January 31, 2007, 08:32:38 PM

It is a bit unkind to think McKay had no say whatsoever in the 1995 draft.

He HAD his say. He said: "Mike Mamula". His say was flatly rejected. Thank goodness.

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#38 : February 01, 2007, 09:26:32 AM

DTG-

Were you in the room? 

HM

keeponbucn

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#39 : February 01, 2007, 11:44:07 AM

Don't sleep on DTG's inside knowledge, it's the real deal.

DBuc

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#40 : February 01, 2007, 11:43:19 AM

DTG, is this true?  I have heard a lot  of stories about Wyche and McKay arguing about that draft but nothing like this...I don't find it hard to believe...but how do you "know this for certain?" 

tampabayfan

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#41 : February 01, 2007, 12:57:00 PM

I think Gruden has a huge say in who we bring to this team and Allen is puppetboy. Our draft and FA players that we have picked up the last few years didnt do crap for us this past season. Still seems that our old players--Barber, Brooks, Pittman are carrying the load and they can only do so much. I never said I loved McKay but he was the guy here when all the players that won us the SB were brought in Except Lynch.

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#42 : February 01, 2007, 01:05:11 PM

Gruden and Allen have an excellent working relationship but make no mistake about it, Allen is nobody's puppet. And for what it's worth, I believe everything DTG writes.

DanTurksGhost

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#43 : February 01, 2007, 01:24:26 PM

DTG-

Were you in the room? 

HM

Actually, this whole argument took place on the back porch, not in the draft room. That's all I'll say.

Boid Fink

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#44 : February 01, 2007, 01:26:30 PM

DTG-

I think saying McKay didn't draft good defensive players is a bit mean. Here is the list on his watch from 1995-2002 that I think worked out reasonably well given where the Bucs drafted them.

Sapp
Brooks

Sapp and Brooks weren't Rich McKay's picks. I know for a fact: McKay wanted to stay put and draft Mike Mamula. Period. Fortunately for the Buccaneers, Sam Wyche still had final say on personnel issues at the time, and that included the draft. Wyche told McKay to trade down.

McKay was upset. He warned Wyche that passing on Mamula to make a trade was a mistake. Rusty Tillman, Sam's defensive coordinator, was going nuts. He was DYING for Sapp, and was sure the Vikings would take Sapp one pick before the Bucs, if Sapp even lasted that long. As history proves, the Vikes took Alexander. Then late in the round, when Brooks was still on the board, Rusty Tillman lobbied hard to get him. He compared Brooks to a guy he had previously coached, Rufus Porter.

Sam ordered McKay to try and trade back into the first round on Tillman's recommendation. They did it, and acquired Brooks.

That's how it went down. This I know for certain. Sapp and Brooks were due to the hard work of Sam Wyche and the absolute adamant lobbying of Rusty Tillman. If it were up to Rich McKay we'd have ended up with Mike Mamula.
YIKES!!

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