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coopsxx

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« #15 : October 16, 2006, 02:57:02 PM »

Maybe the penalty shouldn't count, and the refs should deal with the consequences since they screwed up not Grad

rayfsc07

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« #16 : October 16, 2006, 03:00:45 PM »

I saw a play similar to this but I think it was even worse, earlier this year, I believe in a college game though.

A guy was running the ball and appeared to step out of bounds (it was close, he was ruled in by the ref at the time) but was not blown dead and he gained about 5 more yards before being tackled, on the field, by a defensive player. The coach for the defense challenged the play, saying that the offensive player had stepped out of bounds.  The coach won the challenge, and the ball was spotted about 5 yards back.  However, since the player was ruled out of bounds the defensive player was charged with a personal foul for a late hit.  

If that's not crap I don't know what is. No whistle had been blown. The guy was ruled in bounds and the defensive player just did his job by making a tackle.  His reward?  A 15 yard penalty. The coaches reward for correctly challenging a play? A net 10 yard loss and an automatic 1st down for the offense.

I want to say this was FSU/Miami, but not sure.  Either way, that definitely needs to be looked at. I don't see how a guy gets a late hit on a play ruled to be live, no whistles blown, and he makes a tackle....

DanTurksGhost

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« #17 : October 16, 2006, 03:02:50 PM »

Maybe the penalty shouldn't count, and the refs should deal with the consequences since they screwed up not Grad

Play or no play, he grabbed the facemask.

keeponbucn

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« #18 : October 16, 2006, 03:03:38 PM »

A play doesn't HAVE to happen for them to penalize a team for a personal foul. A player could be flagged for a personal fould during a timeout.


I understand DTG, I get it but if the play was reveresed and time was put back on the clock this penalty never really happened. If the call is made correctly Grads doesn't need to throw the players helmet off.

I get the rule, it just doesn't make sense if the play never should've really happened....

DanTurksGhost

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« #19 : October 16, 2006, 03:05:50 PM »

I get the rule, it just doesn't make sense if the play never should've really happened....

I'm sorry, not trying to be contradictory, but it makes perfect sense to me. I guess if it is non-sensical to you but the opposite to me, we can probably never come to a satisfying resolution!

mjs020294

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« #20 : October 16, 2006, 03:09:55 PM »

It is a case of which came first the chicken or the egg? 

If the D player had been HONEST and not tried to claim an interception when it clearly hit the ground, then the play would have been dead.  Blatant attempts at cheating like that should be deemed ungentlemanly conduct and be punished by a penalty IMO.

Also if the Bengles had any sense of right and wrong they should have declined the face-mask penalty.


Orangegone1

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« #21 : October 16, 2006, 04:07:41 PM »

The play happened because Grad was trying to make a tackle when he shouldn't have had to due the the officials mistake. That said, all kinds of fouls could be committed if you knew a play was missed. You would have free rein to take cheap shots. I guess you do have to penalize him for the personal foul.

leeroybuc93

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« #22 : October 16, 2006, 05:32:34 PM »

Look at it from another point of view in an extreme scenario.  Let's say Ronde picks one off and start running it back and Carson Palmer roundhouse kicks Ronde in the throat with his cleats.  If the play gets called back, you still have to penalize Palmer for a roundhouse kick to the throat. 

The NFL makes no distinction between a roundhouse kick to the throat and Bruce's face mask.  They are both non-football related penalties.  They are both personal fouls which are unrelated to football penalties such as holding or offsides.

If you couldn't penalize players for misconduct because of a bad call, a defender could just kick Caddy in the nuts after a questionable call.  If the call stands you get penalized for kicking Caddy in the nuts, but if it doesn't, then you get away scott free and Caddy is hurt.  Obviously the NFL can't allow things like that to happen.

captaindabblin

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« #23 : October 16, 2006, 08:20:07 PM »

   What ticked me off about it is how easily the helmet came off. I don't think the guy had it strapped on; it wasn't like Grad's grabbed the facemask and jerked it like you normally see...

TURBO

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« #24 : October 16, 2006, 08:25:33 PM »

Look at it from another point of view in an extreme scenario. Let's say Ronde picks one off and start running it back and Carson Palmer roundhouse kicks Ronde in the throat with his cleats. If the play gets called back, you still have to penalize Palmer for a roundhouse kick to the throat.

The NFL makes no distinction between a roundhouse kick to the throat and Bruce's face mask. They are both non-football related penalties. They are both personal fouls which are unrelated to football penalties such as holding or offsides.

If you couldn't penalize players for misconduct because of a bad call, a defender could just kick Caddy in the nuts after a questionable call. If the call stands you get penalized for kicking Caddy in the nuts, but if it doesn't, then you get away scott free and Caddy is hurt. Obviously the NFL can't allow things like that to happen.

EXACTLY!!!

a personal foul can cause harm to a given player, you can't take that away no matter what happens...

I like the rule, and it should not be changed. 


SamoaJoeBucFan

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« #25 : October 16, 2006, 09:00:02 PM »

I thought that was the rule to be honest.  Once the play is ruled not an Interception, then whatever happened after that never happened, because the INT never happened.  Whatever, we won.
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