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Ladyfan

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#15 : February 02, 2007, 11:31:47 AM

carriker won't be there in round 2.  period.  We have to trade 2 round 2 picks for a one round I would say around the 10-15 at the latest pick to get him or Okoe.


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#16 : February 02, 2007, 11:35:42 AM

Ignoring the Charles Rogers types, the best of the recent top 5 receivers are Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson and Roy Williams and they put up good numbers for 3 of the worst teams in the league. It's a hard sell that even if Calvin Johnson is great, he's going to turn around the Bucs who are in need of a near complete overhaul.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#17 : February 02, 2007, 11:41:47 AM

Ignoring the Charles Rogers types, the best of the recent top 5 receivers are Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson and Roy Williams and they put up good numbers for 3 of the worst teams in the league. It's a hard sell that even if Calvin Johnson is great, he's going to turn around the Bucs who are in need of a near complete overhaul.

Unfortunately for us, you cannot get a complete overhaul with one pick.  You can only get one player.  No one player is going to turn this team around, but any one player can be the start.

Calvin Johnson is Randy Moss good without the Randy Moss crazy.  The Vikings had an immediate improvement when they got him and he made 3 QB's look like All Pros during his time there. 

He's not "the answer" just as no one player is "the answer."  You can say that those recievers you named are on bad teams, but there are plenty of great recievers on good teams.  Look at the Colts right now.  They drafted Marvin Harrison first.  They started there and that turned out just fine.

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#18 : February 02, 2007, 11:42:30 AM

Ignoring the Charles Rogers types, the best of the recent top 5 receivers are Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson and Roy Williams and they put up good numbers for 3 of the worst teams in the league. It's a hard sell that even if Calvin Johnson is great, he's going to turn around the Bucs who are in need of a near complete overhaul.

QFT


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#19 : February 02, 2007, 11:49:09 AM

so much still to learn about these players, so i take it all with a grain of salt, but i'm still not ready to give up on clayton - clayton, stovall, galloway, plus alex smith, pitt, and caddy is a good start if we can run the ball and protect the QB. 

watson, you make a good point.... 
thomas = factor on 100% of the snaps
CJ = factor on 50% of the snaps (best case scenario, incl decoys, clearing routes, run blocking)

and when it comes to run blocking, we've got 2 beasts in stovall & clayton who are likely superior.

the way gruden likes to spread the ball around when the offense is working right (4-5 guys running routes) means we won't maximize our investment in CJ like another team might. the only way to justify taking CJ over a franchise LT is if he's a perennial 90+ catch guy, and that's not likely to happen with caddy running the ball, and galloway, clayton, stovall, pitt, and alex smith in the mix as passcatchers.



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#20 : February 02, 2007, 01:15:29 PM

carriker won't be there in round 2. period. We have to trade 2 round 2 picks for a one round I would say around the 10-15 at the latest pick to get him or Okoe.

With how this draft has been wrapping up in the last few years I cannot say anything about who will be where...
Only thing I can promise is Jamarcus Russell/Joe Thomas/Calvin Johnson/Alan Branch will be all gone by pick 10. Other than that stranger things can happen.

Last year...Duce Lutui/Marcus Mcneil/Eric Winston/ the other USC OL were around 2-3 where many saw they would be first rounders AND WOULD HAVE BET ON IT....and a guy like Hetser was gone in the second round which was way out there

The year before that you see Alex Smith going first and the guy they were talking about being the first overall pick in Aaron Rogers falling like 20 spots to Green Bay

Few years ago Chris Simms fell to like the last pick on the first day....some boards had him as a first rounder

The only thing that is consistant in the draft is its inconsistancy....
Hell who know Okoye/Carriker/Tank Tyler/Woodley may be ther at 2a for us....as outlandish as it sounds STRANGER THINGS HAVE HAPPENED

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#21 : February 02, 2007, 01:18:30 PM

Thomas
Carriker
Weddle

SCHWING!


OpTiOnMaStA

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#22 : February 02, 2007, 01:24:14 PM

Although we took Marcus Thomas, I would like to see us in a position to take Harell from Tennessee. That guy doesn't have the attitude problems that Thomas does. We can't afford a guy who is a real idiot around here like that. I like his talent but his off the field problems worry me.

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#23 : February 02, 2007, 01:34:37 PM

Unfortunately for us, you cannot get a complete overhaul with one pick. You can only get one player. No one player is going to turn this team around, but any one player can be the start.

Calvin Johnson is Randy Moss good without the Randy Moss crazy. The Vikings had an immediate improvement when they got him and he made 3 QB's look like All Pros during his time there.

He's not "the answer" just as no one player is "the answer." You can say that those recievers you named are on bad teams, but there are plenty of great recievers on good teams. Look at the Colts right now. They drafted Marvin Harrison first. They started there and that turned out just fine.
Of course it's just one player, but I'll buy Thomas, Adams, Okoye, or Anderson being able to elevate the play of those around him more than with CJ. The addition of one of those guys instantly makes Buenning, Hovan, etc. better and in Thomas' case allows Alex Smith to not have to block every play. I haven't seen Fitz, Andre, or Roy do much for their teammates. As dalbuc has argued, the difference between an elite wide receiver and a pretty good one is 200-300 yards and 2-3 touchdowns. Of the final eight teams in the playoffs this year, Marvin Harrison was the ONLY elite receiver, and he's been invisible during this run. But all those eight teams had elite or second tier left tackles, with Matt Light, a mid-second rounder, being the one with the least pedigree.

Regarding Moss and the Vikes, remember Moss was the 21st pick and the Vikings were coming off a playoff season. They had a lot of talent in place with a good offensive line, Cris Carter, Robert Smith, and some pieces on defense.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.



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#24 : February 02, 2007, 01:37:05 PM

Although we took Marcus Thomas, I would like to see us in a position to take Harell from Tennessee. That guy doesn't have the attitude problems that Thomas does. We can't afford a guy who is a real idiot around here like that. I like his talent but his off the field problems worry me.

Harell's problem is physical however...If you remember he is the one that ruptured his bicep and if ended his collegate career....MT I think can develop and mature under a Derrick Brooks/Chris Hovan/Rhonde Barber/Monte Kiffen and I am sure from whatever he did he is regretting everything he has done (he missed out on the National Championship) and looking to prove something

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#25 : February 02, 2007, 01:47:21 PM

Harell's problem is physical however...If you remember he is the one that ruptured his bicep and if ended his collegate career....MT I think can develop and mature under a Derrick Brooks/Chris Hovan/Rhonde Barber/Monte Kiffen and I am sure from whatever he did he is regretting everything he has done (he missed out on the National Championship) and looking to prove something
Harrell had surgery by the end of September. They can fix those things. I hope Thomas can turn it around but I have more faith in modern medicine than some kid with an attitude who has yet to show he 'gets it'.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.



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#26 : February 02, 2007, 02:04:18 PM

Harell's problem is physical however...If you remember he is the one that ruptured his bicep and if ended his collegate career....MT I think can develop and mature under a Derrick Brooks/Chris Hovan/Rhonde Barber/Monte Kiffen and I am sure from whatever he did he is regretting everything he has done (he missed out on the National Championship) and looking to prove something
Harrell had surgery by the end of September. They can fix those things. I hope Thomas can turn it around but I have more faith in modern medicine than some kid with an attitude who has yet to show he 'gets it'.

Gator fans correct me if I am wrong...Did Thomas have "big problems" other than this year. From what I here he was alright except he got into a little "situation" per se at the beginning of the year. really that wasnt that big of a deal as he was suspended only for Southern Miss and UCF. When the second positive heis name arose becasue he appealed it claiming it was still in his system from the first time he smoked it....and his banishment was big news but it wasnt for anything Major...he believed he didnt need to be in rehab because he wasnt going to smoke pot anymore...so he said to hell with this I am going to HHN

Really other than his first suspension his only crime was skipping a rehab session he deemed as unnessesary

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#27 : February 02, 2007, 02:36:20 PM

Gator fans correct me if I am wrong...Did Thomas have "big problems" other than this year. From what I here he was alright except he got into a little "situation" per se at the beginning of the year. really that wasnt that big of a deal as he was suspended only for Southern Miss and UCF. When the second positive heis name arose becasue he appealed it claiming it was still in his system from the first time he smoked it....and his banishment was big news but it wasnt for anything Major...he believed he didnt need to be in rehab because he wasnt going to smoke pot anymore...so he said to hell with this I am going to HHN

Really other than his first suspension his only crime was skipping a rehab session he deemed as unnessesary
I'm an alum, and I always thought he brought it on the field and was better than any DT I saw all year. He hasn't gotten in any trouble that would affect us civilians but he's failed at least 3-4 drug tests in his career, blatantly breached the terms of his reinstatement, and recently made statements about the UF coaching staff being too restricting on him. He may never get arrested or anything, but you start failing drug tests in the NFL and you're gone like Ricky Williams, Odell Thurman and Onterrio Smith. It's very troubling to see someone not be able to live with simple rules with such a big reward waiting for him. I hope he turns it around but that's what he's shown thus far.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#28 : February 02, 2007, 04:26:06 PM


While I like Calvin isn't there one WR like him almost every year?

2005 Braylon Edwards (3) was big, fast, can't miss.
2004 LFitz (3) was a Calvin level player at the time.
2003 Charles Rodgers (2) and Andre Johnson (3)  were viewed with much the same awe.
2001 David Terell (7)  was a stud player
2000 Peter Warrick (4)
1999 Tory Holt (6)

I'm not trying to argue that he's not a good player becuase some of these cats are really good but people look at him like something that's never been before and in simple fact he's a big, fast dude and that isn't all that rare.


Fitzgerald was the closest player to how Johnson is being talked about, and he turned out real good.


Except he only runs a 4.5 40 as opposed to 4.4 with Calvin.


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#29 : February 02, 2007, 04:28:45 PM


Except he only runs a 4.5 40 as opposed to 4.4 with Calvin.

We don't know what Johnson will run. I wouldn't be suprised if it's a 4.5.
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