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PoorRichard

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: April 27, 2009, 09:16:01 PM

Lets keep in mind the fact that KSU was usually on the wrong end of a 4 TD deficit by the end of the 1st quarter. This has to be taken into account.

IMO it is always about individual talent. There were plenty of 1st rounders that looked good on good teams and could not play in the pros. Lets give this kid a chance to prove his worth.

Boid Fink

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#1 : April 27, 2009, 08:34:42 PM

It's tough sometimes to evaluate QBs based on W-L record. A QB has no control over what the defense does. KSU's defense was destroyed in practically every above .500 opponent they played.

Yeah but the margin of defeat was epic in those games so it wasn't like he was keeping them close and producing good numbers - see Cutler for example. I mean some of those games were so out of hand he should have gotten some foot off the throat stats against the backups.
Problem might be tha backups are on par with the KSU starters.  The guys he worked with were not good at all.

HE was however.  Hard to have good passing games when your O-line is turrible, your wideouts are meh, you have limited ability to run the ball, and your defense is giving up points like the dyke broke...

Like Zell said, the kid is big, smart, athletic, and can zip a ball around.  Throw in some talented offensive players, solid protection, and a run game that will not rely on him and him alone, he might put up numbers that surpass Sanchez, and Stafford over the length of his career...that is what I think anyway.


dalbuc

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#2 : April 27, 2009, 07:35:46 PM

I did a bit of this on Freeman but I'm looking at his college production and finding things I don't like seeing.

Looking at him game by game shows a lot of inconsistency and some other potential issues.

1. Take out his stats vs the non-BCS conference teams he played and his stat line looks like this: 54.7% compltion, 12 TD and 8 INT.

He wasn't playing the good non-BCS schools either - LaLa, UNT and Montanta State. 3 of his 4 highest comp % games came versus those schools. Yes I know all college QB's pad up versus these chumps but Sanchez didn't even play this level of chump and Stafford didn't have production way out of line with his usual versus his chumps.

2. He had 4 games with > 60 completion (3 of those were the minor schools) and 4 games 50% or lower (all major conference schools).

3. He didn't toss a TD pass in 4 games, 3 of them losses, last year.

4. He looks like he really opened it up vs OU (3 TD's) but he also tossed 3 picks.

5. In the games they lost in B12 play, by an average of 24 points so they were getting crushed, he threw 5 TD's in 6 games.

I see a lot of inconsistency playing the better B12 schools (and he didn't play Texas who had the best D in conference).


All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

Detrimental

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#3 : April 27, 2009, 07:37:19 PM

Uh there's no secret that most QB prospects play well against the lesser talented teams. See Matt Ryan, who played awful against the likes of Va Tech.

LFO

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#4 : April 27, 2009, 07:40:35 PM

Also, in his last 2 years he was 1-10 vs. teams above .500, 9-4 against losing teams.  

Ok, I can say KSU wasn't a great team, but if he were such a great player and leader he could lead them to more than ONE win in 11 tries against winning teams....

Detrimental

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#5 : April 27, 2009, 07:43:25 PM

Freeman can't play defense too. Third worst in NCAA D-1 last year.

At least Ryan had a top notch defense.

cyberdude557

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#6 : April 27, 2009, 07:48:46 PM

It's tough sometimes to evaluate QBs based on W-L record. A QB has no control over what the defense does. KSU's defense was destroyed in practically every above .500 opponent they played.

dalbuc

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#7 : April 27, 2009, 07:51:50 PM

It's tough sometimes to evaluate QBs based on W-L record. A QB has no control over what the defense does. KSU's defense was destroyed in practically every above .500 opponent they played.

Yeah but the margin of defeat was epic in those games so it wasn't like he was keeping them close and producing good numbers - see Cutler for example.  I mean some of those games were so out of hand he should have gotten some foot off the throat stats against the backups.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

SON-OF-ZELL

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#8 : April 27, 2009, 08:02:16 PM

 I looked at  Leinert's game by game in  the undefeated season, man that guy is stellar.....we should draft him. ;)

You just never know what you will get.  The guy is:

a.Smart
b.Big
c.Athletic

Maybe he matures.  Plenty of guys  are non-elite level QB's in college who "get it" in the pro's, just like many "look" like studs and sure fire can't miss guys in  College and can't do it.....we'll see.


Booker

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#9 : April 27, 2009, 08:03:57 PM

It also helps with Pro coaching. Jagz coached Ryan so I have hope.

king_frog

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#10 : April 27, 2009, 08:04:05 PM

The way that I keep my sanity over this pick, is to keep telling myself that Morris & Dominick did there homework and they know more than us..

ALong13

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#11 : April 27, 2009, 08:04:13 PM

I did a bit of this on Freeman but I'm looking at his college production and finding things I don't like seeing.

Looking at him game by game shows a lot of inconsistency and some other potential issues.

1. Take out his stats vs the non-BCS conference teams he played and his stat line looks like this: 54.7% compltion, 12 TD and 8 INT.

He wasn't playing the good non-BCS schools either - LaLa, UNT and Montanta State. 3 of his 4 highest comp % games came versus those schools. Yes I know all college QB's pad up versus these chumps but Sanchez didn't even play this level of chump and Stafford didn't have production way out of line with his usual versus his chumps.

2. He had 4 games with > 60 completion (3 of those were the minor schools) and 4 games 50% or lower (all major conference schools).

3. He didn't toss a TD pass in 4 games, 3 of them losses, last year.

4. He looks like he really opened it up vs OU (3 TD's) but he also tossed 3 picks.

5. In the games they lost in B12 play, by an average of 24 points so they were getting crushed, he threw 5 TD's in 6 games.

I see a lot of inconsistency playing the better B12 schools (and he didn't play Texas who had the best D in conference).



You have to understand though, they had no running game (We have Ward, Graham, Caddy, & Peanut)...He had no reliable catching options (We have AB, K2, Stevens, Ward, and Graham, and Clayton will come around I think)...He had the third worse defense out of 119 teams..(We we're still tenth despite our huge collapse and we've only got rid of players who weren't fitting our defense or lacked production)

I think he'll be just fine...I remember reading somewhere that his recievers dropped A LOT of passes, including some deep balls


cyberdude557

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#12 : April 27, 2009, 08:11:54 PM

If the o-line and RBs do their job, he's not going to be asked to win every game like he was asked to do at KSU. This isnt Gruden's WCO where the QB is the make or break part of the system.

With the line we have and the RBs we have... if we are looking to him (or any QB for that matter) to win every game for us....then the QB positon is the least of our problems.

dalbuc

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#13 : April 27, 2009, 08:13:53 PM

I see a lot of people making excuses for our R1 QB and I don't think you should ever have to do that and it really isn't about the W/L. It is the lack of consistency and production versus his best foes.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

dbucfan

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#14 : April 27, 2009, 08:14:41 PM

The way that I keep my sanity over this pick, is to keep telling myself that Morris & Dominick did there homework and they know more than us..

I find myself saying that very same thing frequently.  

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant
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