Looking at Freeman Game by Game

[rowdie]

My question is, without having seen much on Freeman, how can he be labeled inconsistent and then also, as I have heard, labeled accurate? I have hear he was a very accurate passer, perticularly downfield with all the throws, as they say. If he was inconsistent with his completions then he couldnt be accurate unless there were alot of dropped passes.

I wish someone would clear that up for me. �
btw #84 there looks like a bi 272.

Excellent point.  I don't think anyone thinks of it as inconsistent with completions that makes no sense.

[rowdie]

Really, the guy had monster games, he had bad games.  As I have said, hard to be consistent when your teammates are consistently bad.  Maybe his wodeouts were not ready to play on those days?  It seems they have more issues with suckage than Freeman did.

It seems his detractors are concerned, and would rather stay on that side of the fence.  Cool.

If he has three bad games in a 16 game stretch, they will come back and bring up these issues again.  Dogma.

Who thinks consistency means always winning or losing?

That's not what I think of when using that term and I don't imagine that's what many others are thinking.

Shoot I'm don't think even going game to game is the usual measure of consistency. I always thought of it as at least refined down to play by play if not even more refined to the action in a play, does he drop back consistently the same, and because it's used on a positive light, good proper way. Does he read the defense consistently well. Are his throws on time, accurate, with good pacing and so forth.

Consistency to me and I'd think many other is a very granular measure, not some view from a U2, games.  In this view, team mates don't factor in.

[Boid Fink]

Teammates ALWAYS factor in.

Line blocking can change how quickly he has to release, or he may have to roll out because of a busted play and be forced to alter his throwing motion, or reduce his full drop.  He may have to put a hitch in his throw in an effort to get it to designated target, as a result oof pressure.

Maybe the receivers were not where they were supposed to be, and that alters his accuracy rating for a game.  Maybe he cannot make three reads because the line play was so bad he had no choice but to cut his reads short?  His damn coach said the team was lousy...HIS COACH!  I take that for what it is...and it means a lot.

So many things.

All I am saying is, he went round 1, was definitely a round 1 prospect, which means despite his MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR shortcomings, he was still the third best QB in the draft by most standards.  NONE of us watched every game he played, all we have is spome numbers to gander over.  Adn what differing draft experts have come up with...

Meh.  I love the pick.  I understand the idea of getting the pick.  wether he pans out, we have to see.

The true Lemmings are the ones gathering in droves to watch him fail, because they are upset with the pick.  That is a lemming man.

[obuc]

With all the factors and inconsistent information, one of the things i like to see is a pocket presence. That is, being able to do 2 things at once, keep up on where your receivers are and will be and when the DE's are coming around on your backside. I haven't seen much footage of him but what I have seen, it looked like he could sense the play collapsing, knew when to run and saw receivers to throw to.

One other point in all of this is that Morris was with him for some time and I assume might have coached the DB's against him at K-State. That said, he knows Josh well, but he also knows the coaches there well and he could be of the strong opinion that they didnt develop him.

[The White Tiger]

Do what the folks who truly want to know who Josh Freeman is - do what I did - look up his game summary's for 2006, 2007 and 2008.

Even in the games his team lost - he scored big - he did everything he could to help his team win.

Here, I'll give you a head start - here's a link to the K-State schedules for the years Josh Freeman payed. the links are broken to the 2006 season, but you can see the results. In 2007 & 2008 the media summary's of EVERY game...not sure I've found a big game he didn't show up for.

You all should probably bring yourself up to speed before conversing with me about Freeman. I have data & facts. You anti-Freeman's have feelings and thoughts.

I love the kid - he's going to be a stud.

[alldaway]

Please share the data and facts you have access to as we all would be interested in looking it over.

[The White Tiger]

Sorry - I copied the link but forgot to post it - I've embedded it in the post above and I'll list it here again too:

http://kstatefootball.com/2009schedule.shtml

[alldaway]

Thank you!

[dalbuc]

His 2007 season was  alot more consistent than 2008. He never went under 55% and threw TD's in every game but one but obviously tossed a lot more picks in a more evenly distributed way. I don't know if that makes me feel good or bad that he regressed.

The biggest loss, for the "supporting cast" crowd, was Jordy Nelson who got 1600 yards but was replaced by another 1000 yard WR and the #2 and #3 WR's stayed the same.

[dalbuc]

Do what the folks who truly want to know who Josh Freeman is - do what I did - look up his game summary's for 2006, 2007 and 2008.

Even in the games his team lost - he scored big - he did everything he could to help his team win.

...not sure I've found a big game he didn't show up for.

Really? I don't know a big game but when they hit the core of their conference schedule this is what he did for 5 weeks in a  row as they lost each game:

...and because the formatting won't hold here are the columns:
Date, Foe, Result, Comp, ATT, Yards, %, YPA, Long, TD, INT, Sacks, Rating

10/18    @Colorado    L 14-13    20    41    237    48.8    5.78    30    0    0    1    66.8    
10/25    Oklahoma    L 58-35    29    51    478    56.9    9.37    77    3    3    2    83.6    
11/1    @Kansas      L 52-21    22    37    207    59.5    5.60    25    0    3    3    41.2    9    
11/8    @Missouri    L 41-24    18    36    121    50.0    3.36    25    0    0    1    57.8    
11/15    Nebraska    L 56-28    7    18    114    38.9    6.33    63    1    0    4    79.4    

[umguy1999]

I see a lot of people making excuses for our R1 QB and I don't think you should ever have to do that and it really isn't about the W/L. It is the lack of consistency and production versus his best foes.

There were questions about P. Manning (can't win the big one is not better than Leaf), there were no questions about Tom Brady because no one cared. Grossman was going to be a great QB, Flacco and Ryan were going to ride the pine their first seasons.
There are 2 logic strings on Freeman in college, the first being he didn't do enough to make his team better, the second is didn't have any good WR's or HB's or O-line and his defense was bad.

I think if this were basketball where one guy can make a big differance, I don't think a game that is 11 on 11 all playing differant positions is a sport where one person can't make up for lack of talent in the other 10. He is not Mike Vick or VInce Young with that kind of speed, so he can't just run the ball every down, he was not in a spread offense that he can just sling it all day, so for him to do well other people had to actually do their job well, the WR has to run his route on time and be consistant, look at his clips on youtube his WR's look like the are in a pick up game. In a pro style offense the O-line has to block and create passing lanes, again look at his clips and watch his O-line get worked, there are a few that a DT is blowing through a double team like Peppers through a TE, (Freeman gets away BTW).

I think he did try to do more, I am sure he forced throws downfield and when your defense sucks and your WR's have butter fingers and don't run crisp routes INTS happen and missed throws happen, 18 drops in 300 passes is the differance betweeen 65% and 59% completions, I have seen Clayton drop 3 passes in one game, imagine 4 Claytons.

[rowdie]

Teammates ALWAYS factor in.

So much for personal responsibility and accountability.

Let's take a look at your examples...

Line blocking can change how quickly he has to release, or he may have to roll out because of a busted play and be forced to alter his throwing motion, or reduce his full drop.  He may have to put a hitch in his throw in an effort to get it to designated target, as a result oof pressure.

See you haven't made it granular enough.

Certainly buddy isn't either always under preassure or never under pressure. Take the plays he has time and see if he's consistent, take the plays were he's pressure and see how he reacts.  How much of this has to do with how well he reads the D?

Maybe the receivers were not where they were supposed to be, and that alters his accuracy rating for a game.

Seems to me if you watch the games you can figure that out. Watching the games is reportedly what the gurus scouts and assorted experts with other titles do.

 Maybe he cannot make three reads because the line play was so bad he had no choice but to cut his reads short?  His damn coach said the team was lousy...HIS COACH!  I take that for what it is...and it means a lot.

In such a forum I'd say the coach's opinion is likely too skewed.  In other words, I'd never expect to have the coach throw his guy under the bus.

So many things.

Yeah, but you seem to know them, and that being so you don't think if you watch the games you can account for them?  I think that's easily possible.  If it's not then this whole process is even a bigger joke then I've ever imagined which is saying quite a bit because I certainly get a laugh out of it.

All I am saying is, he went round 1, was definitely a round 1 prospect, which means despite his MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR shortcomings, he was still the third best QB in the draft by most standards.  NONE of us watched every game he played, all we have is spome numbers to gander over.  Adn what differing draft experts have come up with...

Well I'm with for the most part on that.  You really took it back to this specific person were as I was commenting on what Consistency means and how people judge it or come to conclusions about it.

Meh.  I love the pick.  I understand the idea of getting the pick.  wether he pans out, we have to see.

Well I don't luv the pick, but luv is usually reseved for a very select few people as there's no way to fall in luv with more then that.

Understand the pick in so far as need for a long term QB?  yeah I got that as well.  

Pans out? the player scares me quite a bit, but being generally positive or maybe it's just fandumb, I'm excited. Plus I'm putting a lot of faith/hope in Jagz and Logan.

The true Lemmings are the ones gathering in droves to watch him fail, because they are upset with the pick.  That is a lemming man.

Seems like a fine definition for lemmings to me. Though I'm not sure we need such a term 'cause I dont' think there are many of them. You could probably just name them.

[Feel Real Good]

One more thing to consider regarding Freeman's pretty good 2007 season to his spotty 2008 season is Coach Ron Prince. By many accounts he was an egotist who lost his team in 2008. Could it be that Prince's methods and motivation weren't getting the job done as consistently in 2008 as he did in 2007 and his players' play suffered? Could it be that in certain games the players just tuned him out? We just saw it with the Bucs. In week 14 the Bucs' defense gets rolled by Carolina, then they play balls to the wall week 15 against Atlanta, and then swoon again week 16 against San Diego. You don't like to see players give up on a coach, but we all know it happens and doesn't mean the players are broken.

[PewterReportSR]

Also, in his last 2 years he was 1-10 vs. teams above .500, 9-4 against losing teams.  

Ok, I can say KSU wasn't a great team, but if he were such a great player and leader he could lead them to more than ONE win in 11 tries against winning teams....

As a K-Stater, it pains me to say this, but K-State and Iowa State are the two least-talented teams in the Big 12 these days. Iowa State even beat K-State in Ames, IA in 2007. The guy had next to nothing to work with.