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dalbuc

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#15 : April 27, 2009, 08:16:15 PM

The way that I keep my sanity over this pick, is to keep telling myself that Morris & Dominick did there homework and they know more than us..

Like I said that "insider knowledge" means a lot to me as well when I look at these kinds of stats.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.



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#16 : April 27, 2009, 08:19:18 PM

73% of stats are made up on the spot.

We can select any number of his performances and make it look bad or good...

Doug Williams took the opposite approach in the Doug Williams thread...

Neither means anything IMO.   Judge the kid on his play,  IN THE NFL, when the time is right.

They've been watching JF for quite some time... professionally.  I just hope they don't throw him
out there too soon...  and ALL of our fans give him a chance.

ktownbuc47

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#17 : April 27, 2009, 09:40:17 PM

I was not a big fan of the pick because I hate to use a 1st rounder on a player who has a 50/50 chance of busting. I know we need a long term solution at QB and I'm hoping that he is the one. He appears to have the tools, the brains and the love of the game so while I wasn't overly excited about the pick I will be watching and hoping he succeeds.

Why do you necessarily have to be wrong just because a few million people think you are?

warrenfb12

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#18 : April 27, 2009, 10:11:11 PM

here we go again. Listen, the kid has a lot of potential. He played at Kansas State thats obvious, he had little to no talent in the years he played. A good qb should win no matter the talent? Thats insanity, look at Steve Young. Give him a year put him behind a good line, surround him with some good weapons, build a little more on defense, give him an excellent running game and see what he can do. Stop trying to scout him. I have a feeling that the coaches, especially jags did their homework and know what they are getting themselves into. I have a good feeling about jags and this young qb.


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#19 : April 27, 2009, 10:12:59 PM

The way that I keep my sanity over this pick, is to keep telling myself that Morris & Dominick did there homework and they know more than us..

Like I said that "insider knowledge" means a lot to me as well when I look at these kinds of stats.

Dal I guess it goes back to the fact that QB is the hardest position to fill and if you don't take a chance you end up with the constant retreads every year and you can't be a consistent playoff team. The reason Indy, New England, Pitt, etc draft so well and contend every year is that they have that QB, it makes up for a lot of other deficiencies, the O-line seems better, the running game is better and the receivers get open and catch the ball better. Plus the defense can take more chances because they know the QB will be able to lead more drives and score more points. I know the value is there for Freeman and the risk/reward is worth the shot especially with the 17th pick in the draft vs a top 5 pick. If he sucks your not stuck with a big contract and you didn't lose much considering that it wasn't a top pick plus nothing prevents you from drafting another QB with a top pick. Look at SD they drafted Leaf 2nd in the draft, Brees with the 1st pick in the 2nd round and they finally got their QB when they took Rivers #1. The risk was worth it and in two to three years we may reap the reward or try again if we want to contend consistently. I know there are questions regarding Freeman and they are real concerns, last year Ryan threw 18 INT at BC and they questioned his decision making but Atlanta took the chance and it seems to have paid big dividends. Flacco played DII football and was questioned if the competition inflated his stats and he was thought to be a 2nd rd pick but Balt took a chance and grabbed him at 18 and it worked for them. I have no idea if Freeman will be the man but the fact that Raheem knows him and knows the risk and still went after him does make me feel better that it might work, but I do give the Bucs FO credit for doing the right thing and trying to build for the future vs taking a DE that might make us better next year but I want to be a top team not a 6 to10 win team year after year.

SON-OF-ZELL

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#20 : April 27, 2009, 10:33:07 PM

I see a lot of people making excuses for our R1 QB and I don't think you should ever have to do that and it really isn't about the W/L. It is the lack of consistency and production versus his best foes.

Football is and  always will be a team game.  Can't always help who you play with.   Big time guys on big time teams put up big stats behind other good players and they throw to good players............can't say that this is an issue. Not making excuses for anyone, I thought "oh crap" with that pick.  But  at least they are trying a "new venture" if they are wrong they will be gone. If right then we will have a QB that will excel..................


Boid Fink

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#21 : April 27, 2009, 10:38:37 PM

I was not a big fan of the pick because I hate to use a 1st rounder on a player who has a 50/50 chance of busting.
Name ten players, and I bet 50 percent of them bust.

What is your point here?  Did you not know the draft was a crapshoot?


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#22 : April 27, 2009, 10:39:28 PM

By all accounts, at pick 17 or 19 in the draft, we weren't going to get a strong true impact player.  Thats why teams tried to get out of the top 10.  Johnson at least has the upside to be that wow player.  Not saying he will, it is very 50/50, but I would take that upside over a marginal player any day.  I like the fact we took the risk.


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#23 : April 27, 2009, 10:51:11 PM

I love the pick. After Luke leads us to the playoffs this season, Freeman can take his rightful place as the franchise QB.

\"For a brief, shining, moment in history, a select breed truly lived free.\".....Unknown Author.

spartan

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#24 : April 27, 2009, 10:54:47 PM


You have to understand though, they had no running game (We have Ward, Graham, Caddy, & Peanut)...He had no reliable catching options (We have AB, K2, Stevens, Ward, and Graham, and Clayton will come around I think)...He had the third worse defense out of 119 teams..(We we're still tenth despite our huge collapse and we've only got rid of players who weren't fitting our defense or lacked production)

I think he'll be just fine...I remember reading somewhere that his recievers dropped A LOT of passes, including some deep balls

These are the kind of excuses/reasons being put out, and I hope they are correct. Only time will tell.

Dalbuc, when you say you "looked" at his College production are you merely referring to his stats, or did you watch any of his games? The reason why I ask is we have been provided 'reasons', and we have stats, but like most people on this board I did not watch many (any?) KSU games. If he thew 99% of passes on the money and his bozo's simply dropped them, tipped them for interceptions etc (I know, extreme examples) his stats might not tell the whole story. I hope you get my point though.

I have heard both sides of the story and I have to be honest and say I am not sold. I will just have to wait and see the reality v the hype.

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#25 : April 27, 2009, 11:00:36 PM

I love the pick. After Luke leads us to the playoffs this season, Freeman can take his rightful place as the franchise QB.

Precisely.   Lot a folks gonna be shocked at how powerful Jag's offense is this year.   The running game will be stellar and McCown will out pass Garcia by miles.   Freeman is a great pick.  He's very young and not ready for the leadership role with a bunch of steely vets.  

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#26 : April 27, 2009, 11:02:06 PM

I was fairly certain going into the draft that Freeman was a bust waiting to happen. So I'm not saying I disagree with the obvious fact that he didn't light up these teams BUT

1. A lack of overall team talent and coaching is only going to be exposed even more when you are the focal point of your offense and playing a top school - all of the sudden your best lineman is worse than their worst etc

2. Elway and Cutler were noted for being very good QB's on bad teams and their W-L record reflected it as well.

3. Flacco looked similar to Freeman in his inconsistencies in college but proved that his size and arm strength translated more so than his deficiencies in year one in the NFL.

That said, I'm not going to necessarily argue a point that I'll admit going into the draft is weak at best. But if he did show all the things you are looking for he sure as heck wasn't going to be available at 17, 12 or even 5. If Freeman was even Jay Cutler at K-State he'd be going ahead of Stafford IMO.



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#27 : April 27, 2009, 11:08:47 PM

While stats can be revealing on something underlying about a guy, they also can be skewed to show/prove a point <cough> just like political polls </cough>  there isn't the full picture involved in analysing what Freeman did with KSU, or for that matter what he'll do with this team.  

Do you think that Cassel is all world simply for the year he had with the Patriots last year?  Is he really better then what Brady was/is with the Patriots?  Sure he progressed as they went along, but seriously is Cassel going to light it up in KC like he did in NE?  Honest question, because IMO who outside of Bowe in KC does Cassel throw it to?  He had Welker, Moss, Watson, and a decent stable of running backs to take the edge off for him.

Does that excuse the stats for Freeman?  Perhaps not, but then again that was college, and this is the NFL, he will get his chance to prove really if he is boom or bust, it certainly isn't looking to be in his favor but I will say that given how Gruden's offense (terminology-wise) was very complex, I'm willing to give Jags the benefit to really see if and what Freeman is capable of.



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#28 : April 27, 2009, 11:25:43 PM


You have to understand though, they had no running game (We have Ward, Graham, Caddy, & Peanut)...He had no reliable catching options (We have AB, K2, Stevens, Ward, and Graham, and Clayton will come around I think)...He had the third worse defense out of 119 teams..(We we're still tenth despite our huge collapse and we've only got rid of players who weren't fitting our defense or lacked production)

I think he'll be just fine...I remember reading somewhere that his recievers dropped A LOT of passes, including some deep balls

These are the kind of excuses/reasons being put out, and I hope they are correct. Only time will tell.

Dalbuc, when you say you "looked" at his College production are you merely referring to his stats, or did you watch any of his games? The reason why I ask is we have been provided 'reasons', and we have stats, but like most people on this board I did not watch many (any?) KSU games. If he thew 99% of passes on the money and his bozo's simply dropped them, tipped them for interceptions etc (I know, extreme examples) his stats might not tell the whole story. I hope you get my point though.

I have heard both sides of the story and I have to be honest and say I am not sold. I will just have to wait and see the reality v the hype.
This is a good point. Hopefully it was through watching film that Dom/Rah saw something that explains why with all his talent/tools he performed so poorly statistically. Though I am supportive and hope this kid succeeds I cannot fathom how an NFL caliber QB (assuming he is NFL caliber) could perform so poorly against some of the worst pass defenses in all of college football.

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#29 : April 27, 2009, 11:40:27 PM

I see a lot of people making excuses for our R1 QB and I don't think you should ever have to do that and it really isn't about the W/L. It is the lack of consistency and production versus his best foes.

There not excuses Dalbuc, they're facts.

- FACT - They had one of the worst offensive lines in the conference
- FACT - They had one of the worst receiving cores in the conference
- FACT - They had one of the worst running games in the conference
- FACT - They had one of the worst defenses in the conference

The man can't win games by himself....and oh by the way, his collegiate numbers were better than Jay Cutler's. I hate to say it (for SR's sake) but Vandy had more talent on those Cutler teams than K State had.

You can analyze and scrutinize the numbers all you want but you're just going to be working yourself into a lather for nothing.

The Josh Freeman who takes the field for the Buccaneers as a starter will be vastly different from the Josh Freeman that last suited up for the Wildcats. Just the fact that the kid will be getting coached for the first time since high school will bring a marked improvement for him. What Freeman has in talent can't be taught. Reading defenses, looking off receivers, footwork - that can be taught.

You guys just need to relax and let the kid get in the lab and become an NFL quarterback...or go root for another team. Your choice. Freeman's going to be our quarterback for the next 5 years - so either support him or don't. Either way stop spouting off shat that doesn't matter come September.

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