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TDTB

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: October 16, 2006, 12:20:36 AM

Alright, their are a bunch of different threads about Grads, but this goes beyond just him, so I figured I'd make a thread out of it.

Since probably Doug Williams the Gators have not had a mutliple year QB playing on the level one needs to win games and take the team where it wants to go. Brad Johnson had a great yeah during the SB, but in his time at Tampa, that was the only quality season he had - but what a season. Shaun King had some great games, remember the monday night one against the Rams, and showed potential but never worked out. Then we had Griese, who had some big games and good throws, but would then make aweful, aweful plays. Simms usually looked really bad, like this season's starts, and against the 49ers last year and the playoff game (49ers were his first start of the season I know). He also had games where he played great. Even Grads now has put us in posistion to win games. Lets not forget about Dilfer's tenure.

What did these guys all have in common? At one point in time all of them were thought to have a chance at stabilizing the offense for the buccaneers. Each had talent, but never really built on that. Each brought something different to the table, but couldn't come up big. Now why did all these guys fail in my opinion. CONSISTENCY. They would have great stretches, but would then tank.

The Bucs don't really need a Carson Palmer, or Peyton Manning, or Michael Vick (with a combined 0 championships). The Bucs don't need a guy who can throw for 300 yards a game. They'd like to have that, but then again who the hell wouldn't? What they need is a guy to come in and just play good, not great good, for a moajority of his starts. Talent, means bupkis. They need a guy who will at least give them a chance in almost every game, not all but most. 

So far Grads has done that, I don't think he's thrown over 200 yards in a game yet (which long term isn't probably acceptable) and he's thrown picks, and missed open guys and has tacken sacks, but he's put the team in a posistion to have a chance in the game. He's made more good plays than bad, and he hasn't compounded mistakes and made then worse or had a snowball effect. Does this mean he's consistent? Hardly. Consistency is measured over several years. Now he's only played two games, and he's played well, and he's a rookie. He's doing EXACTLY what he needs to do. There are areas of his game that needs improvement duh, but he's looked as good if not better then all other rookie QB's, he just isn't a media darling (ESPN has been too busy playing "ride the horsie" on USC's shoulders the last couple of years to notice other teams play football in college - that USC versus all the dominant teams in college history thing was laughable).

So if Grads is doing everything he needs to do, why does it sound like I'm being pessimistic? The truth is the people who need to be patient are the fans. If he plays the next 5-6 games well, everyone's going to want to pay him 15 million dollars to lock him up long term, pronounce him a future HOF'r, and trade any decent backup QB the Bucs might have for draft picks. I distincly remember parts of the last 2 years where Brian Griese and Chris Simms had the QB posistion locked down for a decade.

I'm not telling anyone to curb their excitement over winning, in fact I can't legitimately tell anyone to do anything. You can dance outside of his house in a giant chicken costume if you want. This is just my view on the matter. Everyone gets excited when a young player does well, but I'm taking the wait and see approach to if he can continue playing well.

Go Grads, and Go Bucs. Give Caddy the ball more than 19 times in a tight ball game, especially in the 4th quarter.


mjs020294

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#1 : October 16, 2006, 12:28:38 AM

So far Grads has done that, I don't think he's thrown over 200 yards in a game yet (which long term isn't probably acceptable) and he's thrown picks,

Wrong, he threw for well over 200 yards last week, and he has thrown PICK not picks.  ;)




BTW, 200 yard games are not important, check 4 of Simms's wins from last season:

@Saints - 123 yards 1 TD
@Atlanta - 118 yards 0 TDs 1 Int
@Carolina - 138 yards 0 TDs
Saints -  143 yards 2 Tds


1sparkybuc

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#2 : October 16, 2006, 12:33:16 AM

225 yards in his first start.

TDTB

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#3 : October 16, 2006, 12:34:35 AM

Wrong, he threw for well over 200 yards last week, and he has thrown PICK not picks. ;)
BTW, 200 yard games are not important, check 4 of Simms's wins from last season:

@Saints - 123 yards 1 TD
@Atlanta - 118 yards 0 TDs 1 Int
@Carolina - 138 yards 0 TDs
Saints - 143 yards 2 Tds

Fair enough. I'm wrong not going to argue that. Although Grads has been quite lucky he only has one pick, again he's playing well and doing what he needs to do. I think my overall point is still valid though.

I'd be curious to see what our rushing stats were in those games.

mjs020294

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#4 : October 16, 2006, 12:39:35 AM

Fair enough. I'm wrong not going to argue that. Although Grads has been quite lucky he only has one pick, again he's playing well and doing what he needs to do. I think my overall point is still valid though.

I'd be curious to see what our rushing stats were in those games.

He is a RAW rookie, and he is exceeding everyone expectations right now.  Simms was inactive his rookie season, and he had over three years in the system.  Even after 16 full starts, 4 training camps and four preseasons he still managed to sh1t all over himself.

People were predicting a real traumatic few weeks for Grads and so far he is well ahead of the curve.  If he finishes the season with a pass completion percentage over 55% and a TD:INT of better than 1:1 he will have done a great job.

If he is still regressing in twelve months time we should start worrying but for now Grads is doing just fine.


magicfan39126

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#5 : October 16, 2006, 12:44:29 AM

Although Grads has been quite lucky he only has one pick
So was Palmer, we should have picked him off at least three times.

And don't get me started on Simms, I forget which game but I think I counted ten or twelve passes that should have been picked off (I'm dead serious) on top of the three he did have intercepted.



TDTB

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#6 : October 16, 2006, 12:47:36 AM

He is a RAW rookie, and he is exceeding everyone expectations right now. Simms was inactive his rookie season, and he had over three years in the system. Even after 16 full starts, 4 training camps and four preseasons he still managed to sh1t all over himself.

People were predicting a real traumatic few weeks for Grads and so far he is well ahead of the curve. If he finishes the season with a pass completion percentage over 55% and a TD:INT of better than 1:1 he will have done a great job.

If he is still regressing in twelve months time we should start worrying but for now Grads is doing just fine.
I'm not sure if we're arguing or not. I agree with everything you said, and I'm not sure I said a whole lot different, just want people to be patient. He needs to play well long term, but that can only happen if you play well short term, which turns into long term over time. Just keep it up. I've seen some bad, bad QB play out of rookies in the past where they look like they're going to **CENSORED** themselves out there, and Grads has certainly looked miles ahead of that. The lack of "paniciness" is what's shocking to me.


And magic you're right Palmer was lucky we had a case of stone hands. Even after Grads would make a very suspect throw though he would turn around and have a nice one.

corruptpirate

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#7 : October 16, 2006, 01:37:21 AM

I'm not gonna argue that the team has gone through a lot of one year wonder QBs(at least for the Bucs anyways) but lets face it, what difference would it make if Simms, Rattay, or Luke is the backup and Gradkowski tanks the next few games. Simms, as tough as he is, hasn't been able to fix problems that he has had since his rookie year and has really sh1t on himself this year. Rattay, well, had Luke not gone down in PS, he would be out of a job. And Luke, I still don't know what he can do in Jon's offense. You talk about consistency, but really Gradkowski is the only consistent thing in the QB position(Aside from Rattay playing garbage) sine TC started.

Also, if you look all around the league, every QB gets picked off from time to time as well. Defensive backs get paid alot too you know. And every one of those QBs also getlucky with dropped picks.

BuccinTex

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#8 : October 16, 2006, 04:04:56 AM

Grads won't need to throw for much over 200 if Gruden sticks with Caddy and the line comes together with some blocking and less penalties.


coopsxx

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#9 : October 16, 2006, 05:09:50 AM

i dont get why you need to be patient?

he aint going anywhere unlike Simms who we had to make a decision on. Grad is signed for 5 years i think? Even though he is underpaid for a starting QB he wont be asking for a raise or deserve one until he takes us to the playoffs.







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#10 : October 16, 2006, 08:27:34 AM

Give Caddy the ball more than 19 times in a tight ball game, especially in the 4th quarter.



After all the jibberish, that is one statement that i agree with.

cheveliar

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#11 : October 16, 2006, 08:46:58 AM

Look, we all knew we were going to have to deal with some mistakes from Grads.  Luckily that's why DB's are DB's.  If they could catch they'd be wideouts or RB's.  Get up off the kid.  We beat a quality team yesterday.  While I know we have to go through the gyrations of seeing what we see.  The bottom line is you can't get to .500 in one game.  You have to start somewhere and that we did over a team who is certainly in the mix for the trophy this year. 

Let's keep it all in perspective people... ;)

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!




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#12 : October 16, 2006, 08:53:07 AM

IMO, Grads looks more relaxed out there than Simms.  And you cannot argue his play at all.  Frankly, if the Bucs could have done ANY tackling vs. New Orleans, Grads would be 2-0.

For a 6th-rd. rookie QB, a very young o-line in front of him, and natural nervousness, I think Grads has been lights out, relatively speaking.

Fans cannot and should not have expected even as much as he has given in his 2 starts.

mjs020294

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#13 : October 16, 2006, 09:08:33 AM

IMO, Grads looks more relaxed out there than Simms.  And you cannot argue his play at all.  Frankly, if the Bucs could have done ANY tackling vs. New Orleans, Grads would be 2-0.

For a 6th-rd. rookie QB, a very young o-line in front of him, and natural nervousness, I think Grads has been lights out, relatively speaking.

Fans cannot and should not have expected even as much as he has given in his 2 starts.



I think some people are being a little critical, and their expectations must be very unrealistic.  Grads was playing college football a few months ago, and he was a 6th round pick.  Just getting a roster spot was an achievement and winning the back up job was a great start to his career. 

People were suggesting he would stink up the joint in his first few games, and he is exceeding everyone’s expectations.   Yesterday his timing was a little bit off but he still managed some good numbers.  His scrambling and short passing is just what Gruden’s offense needs to be successful.  Sure the longer passing was a little off yesterday, but I am sure he will have better days.

Next week will be a real test because the Eagles will blitz all day long.   If he can get through that game with less than three interceptions it will be a good outing.


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