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#30 : October 16, 2006, 02:27:33 PM

And then what?  We go with undersized, worthless DTs again?  They play the most importnat (arguably) position in this Tampa2 scheme.  I would rather spend the money on the DT, or D-line, and throw Joey G into the PR duties.
His payday needs to be taken with a view to what we'd be paying anyway.  We know BK want's this $$, so it's not like we're comparing one huge salary next year with a vet min salary.  Yeah we could structure BS, but we could structure Clements too...
I don't have an opinion on his qualifications, just pointing out the money sitch.  Although,  if he's a good corner AND ret guy that would be nice.

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#31 : October 16, 2006, 02:55:22 PM

I was about to make that point as well Caradoc. BK was looking for a Ronde Barber type deal after this year anyways, and if he had stayed healthy and performed, he more than likely would have recieved it. Clements has had a bit of a quadriceps injury lately, but played yesterday at Detroit. He was a 2001 1st rd. draft pick, so he's still young and has a lot of ability. If we could do it, I'd say to do it b/c we'd be doing it anyways for BK. I don't think we need to pursue a DT right now if we can get Clements. DT is going to definetly be a point in the draft/FA next year.


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#32 : October 16, 2006, 03:22:52 PM

Anything we can get for Booger is a plus. Pay him if he is that good especially if he is a returner. Then we can finally cut Jones and free up that roster spot for somebody useful.

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#33 : October 16, 2006, 03:46:24 PM

If we trade for Clements we probably will have worked out a new contract for him already, so we won't be renting a CB. He's also a good tackler, not just a cover corner, so he fits our style of defense. The money we will pay him would still probably be less than what we pay Booger and Rice next year and Bruce could structure the deal to make it very cap friendly and still get a DT, DE , OLB and safety in the offseason. I wonder if there down on Zemeitas. He's been inactive all year.

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#34 : October 16, 2006, 03:50:52 PM

If Clements is that good of a cover guy he would fit perfectly into our system.  BK is the corner on this team that plays a lot of man and it has been said that the Bucs D doesn't play the cover 2 100% of the time.  I believe it was said that the Bucs play more man than cover 2 anymore.  Maybe we swing a trade that send Rice and Booger there for Clements and a 2nd round pick.  That would put the Bucs in position to grab either the top DE or DT in the first and a top DE or DT in the second with one of our two picks.  With Barber, Clements, Zem, BK, Bolden, and Cox on the team going into next year the Bucs would be safe at CB no matter what happens.  This isn't going to be a superbowl season so why not build toward the future?  Having Clements would mean that the Bucs wouldn't have to spend another high pick on a CB because we would have a young Zem and Clements to go with Barber and Kelly, if not the Bucs will likely take another corner early in this draft anyway.


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#35 : October 16, 2006, 05:01:21 PM

If Clements is that good of a cover guy he would fit perfectly into our system.  BK is the corner on this team that plays a lot of man and it has been said that the Bucs D doesn't play the cover 2 100% of the time.  I believe it was said that the Bucs play more man than cover 2 anymore.  Maybe we swing a trade that send Rice and Booger there for Clements and a 2nd round pick.  That would put the Bucs in position to grab either the top DE or DT in the first and a top DE or DT in the second with one of our two picks.  With Barber, Clements, Zem, BK, Bolden, and Cox on the team going into next year the Bucs would be safe at CB no matter what happens.  This isn't going to be a superbowl season so why not build toward the future?  Having Clements would mean that the Bucs wouldn't have to spend another high pick on a CB because we would have a young Zem and Clements to go with Barber and Kelly, if not the Bucs will likely take another corner early in this draft anyway.

The Bills just traded for Anthony Hargrove who is a starting caliber DE.  They might want Booger because he is still relatively young, but would want nothing to do with Rice.  No one wants to trade for a DE Rice's age unless they think they can go all the way this season.  The Bills certainly aren't in that category.

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#36 : October 16, 2006, 05:08:17 PM

. No one wants to trade for a DE Rice's age unless they think they can go all the way this season.

They have to be able to swallow his contract as well.  Not too many teams in contention have the cap room to make a move for his salary.



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#37 : October 16, 2006, 05:14:10 PM

The Bills just traded for Anthony Hargrove who is a starting caliber DE. They might want Booger because he is still relatively young, but would want nothing to do with Rice. No one wants to trade for a DE Rice's age unless they think they can go all the way this season. The Bills certainly aren't in that category.

My guess is that they plan to use Hargrove or one of their 2 DEs that play opposite Schobel to rotate in as a pass-rushing UT in nickel spots, similar to how we play White.




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#38 : October 16, 2006, 05:17:43 PM

Why do you guys assume we cant afford to sign Clements and a premier DT in his prime also? The Bucs will be 21 mil below the cap. Hardly any big bonus/longterm deals to screw with the cap a few years down the line, and when Booger and Rice's huge salaries come off teh books in the offseason (there contracts dont run out but they will be gone) we should be closer to 30 mil under. I figure Booger will save close to 4-5 mil, and Rice more like 8 mil. With 30+ mil in cap room we can sign Clements, a good young DT, maybe a Center, maybe a half way decent vet QB, maybe a LB and safety. Not that we will spend that freely like Washington. Maybe we will prove to be conservative with cap room for the first time under Allen/Gruden. But the money will be there

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#39 : October 16, 2006, 05:24:08 PM

Why do you guys assume we cant afford to sign Clements and a premier DT in his prime also? The Bucs will be 21 mil below the cap. Hardly any big bonus/longterm deals to screw with the cap a few years down the line, and when Booger and Rice's huge salaries come off teh books in the offseason (there contracts dont run out but they will be gone) we should be closer to 30 mil under. I figure Booger will save close to 4-5 mil, and Rice more like 8 mil. With 30+ mil in cap room we can sign Clements, a good young DT, maybe a Center, maybe a half way decent vet QB, maybe a LB and safety. Not that we will spend that freely like Washington. Maybe we will prove to be conservative with cap room for the first time under Allen/Gruden. But the money will be there
What happens when Caddy, Clayton, Smith, and Co. come knocking on the door for some loose change?




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#40 : October 16, 2006, 05:29:34 PM

Good point. However, with 30+ mil and as of now nobody locked into contracts we cant get out of (aside from Caddy, Clayton, Barber, Joseph), this team will be in as good a shape cap wise as anyone in the league oevr the next few years. Caddy and Clayton will not get paid for another few years. Not that it shouldnt be taken into consideration, but they already have huge bonuses and large salaries they are playing under. With the salary cap increasing something like 5 mil per season, that will add even more cushion to the 30 mil we will have when BOoger and Rice are gone. I see no reason why this team cant resign Clayton, Caddy, Ruud and Smith and still sign a few bluechip FA.

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#41 : October 16, 2006, 05:31:28 PM

Good point. However, with 30+ mil and as of now nobody locked into contracts we cant get out of (aside from Caddy, Clayton, Barber, Joseph), this team will be in as good a shape cap wise as anyone in the league oevr the next few years. Caddy and Clayton will not get paid for another few years. Not that it shouldnt be taken into consideration, but they already have huge bonuses and large salaries they are playing under. With the salary cap increasing something like 5 mil per season, that will add even more cushion to the 30 mil we will have when BOoger and Rice are gone. I see no reason why this team cant resign Clayton, Caddy, Ruud and Smith and still sign a few bluechip FA.

Better point.

But you can bet Caddy is going to want some big jack...


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#42 : October 16, 2006, 05:31:34 PM

Hey Bucs fans!

I'll say this...Nate is a lot of hype. He's a good corner, but I wouldn't call him elite by an stretch of the imagination. As for Booger....he can't possibly be worse than what we have. Triplett isn't working out, Anderson sucks, McCargo is on IR, and Kyle Williams is average.

More on Nate....he has a nasty tendency to try too hard for the big play and sometimes gets burned for it. Like two years ago on opening day, when he went for the pick instead of knocking it down, resulting in a Jags TD and a loss for us. He was also abused by Chambers brutally that one game last year, though he was successful against CJ and until it was crunch time against Steve Smith. He's really an all-or-nothing deal. He makes the big play or gets toasted, and I question his desire. He doesn't seem to get psyched up in crunch time...but that might be coaching...



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#43 : October 16, 2006, 05:41:03 PM

As for Booger....he can't possibly be worse than what we have.

Are you guys fielding a DL consisting of special olympic all stars?



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#44 : October 16, 2006, 05:43:23 PM

Are you guys fielding a DL consisting of special olympic all stars?
LMFAO!!!!
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