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Boid Fink

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#75 : May 25, 2009, 11:38:03 AM

Hows about we give the guy a season before we gauge what he does?

Otherwise, a lot of this is just pure nonsense.


CyberDilemma

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#76 : May 25, 2009, 02:00:48 PM

A bunch of whiny women on this site.

Just because people think Morris is a crap choice as head coach relative to Gruden doesn't mean they are whiny women. � It means they think Morris is a crap choice. � There were a ton of people complaining about Gruden as well when he was coaching here. � �Everyone has their opinion.

I think it is fair for you to state your opinion about what you think about the coach. I dont think it is fair to say that the coach should be fired now before he has even coached a game. I dont think it is fair to say that the guy is a bad coach before he has even coached a game. Which is what Java, PAC, and LAC have been doing ever since Gruden got fired. If you are really a fan, I think you should hope that the guy does well instead of hoping that he fails just so that you will be right. Swallow your pride and be a buc fan first if you call yourself one. If you dont call yourself a fan then go ahead say whatever you want because we wont listen to you.
I was surprised by Java.. I guess he liked the 8-8, 9-7 no playoffs or 1st round playoff losses 39 year old rag armed QB rut we were in.

The team needed to be rebuilt.  But the coach was not the problem.  The problem was the situation he was put in.   I've said this numerous times, but I'll say it again.   Bucs win the superbowl in 2002 and many predict that the Bucs may even go undefeated in 2003.  2003 Brian Kelly goes down and the team collapses with weak links like Wansley getting ripped to shreds in the 2ndary.  Amazing how the loss of one key defensive player makes such a big difference, but it did that year.   So 2003 is a bad year.   2004 they go out and sign veterans to try to shore up positions they think are weaknesses to make another run at the superbowl.   After all, 2003 would have been a success had only Kelly stayed healthy.   And Kelly was back this year as well as some new CB's for a bit of depth.   Problem is that the veterans like Deese, Garner, Steussie, Stinchcomb, Wade, etc were not any upgrade at all.   And letting Sapp go due to McFarland having a huge contract hurt.  And letting Lynch go thinking Phillips was ready was a disaster.   So the 2004 team really was not a superbowl caliber team at all - instead it was terrible.   By 2005, Gruden needed to turn the team around quickly or he'd be fired.   It was time to rebuild, but he did not have that luxury.  So he pieced together a team that made the playoffs again.   Everyone was happy again.   2006 was a total collapse since both Simms and McCown went out for the year and the Bucs ended up starting Gradkowski.   Had the Glazers fired Gruden at that point, it would have made sense.   But he had to produce in 2007 or be fired.  So he gets a vet QB in Garcia and they make the playoffs in 2007.   The same in 2008, no playoffs, but a pretty solid year with Garcia at QB.   If the Glazers wanted to rebuild (which was absolutely necessary), they could have told Gruden that they wanted him to tear the team down and rebuild it.  That they were willing to accept 2 years of losing seasons to get this team built back into a championship type team.   And that Gruden had no risk of being fired for those 2 years.   After all, Gruden was still under contract for 2 years and Gruden is a better coach than Morris.    I believe the Glazers thought that would make the team too stale for the fans and that ticket sales would suffer.  That making a change to a new guy would allow them to lose for a few seasons while rebuilding and still keep the fans hopes up since it was a new regime.  However, that's not what has happened.  People don't have faith in Morris already.   They'd have been better off sticking with Gruden to rebuild and taken the criticism from guys like Duemig.   It would have been better for the team in the long run because 4 years from now, the Bucs would have another superbowl trophy with Gruden.     

I completely agree with this assessment, Java, but I believe where Gruden and Allen failed over these years was in not providing adequate depth on the roster and by not giving back-ups adequate reps during practice. The end result was, instead of having a team of mostly non-stars that can plug any hole and not miss a beat like New England, we ended up with countless post-game interviews making apologies and excuses for all the key injuries. A perfect example was a recent Clayton quote where he said it was common for him to go two days of practice with having only one pass thrown to him but yet he is expected to catch everything thrown to him on game day? Also, in 2006, if Gruden would have gone with Rattay sooner instead of his Gradkowski experiment, the season would have ended on a much different note.

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#77 : May 25, 2009, 02:14:23 PM

True Rattay would have been better for that particular season.  Gruden was obviously trying to groom Grads that year.  It was a failure.   Grads just doesn't have the talent to be an NFL QB. 

Clayton better not drop any passes this year with all the great reps he's getting now....

CyberDilemma

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#78 : May 25, 2009, 03:08:33 PM

I should note that Kiffin was just as guilty of not giving back-ups adequate practice reps nor sufficient playing time to speed up their development.

Bschucher

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#79 : May 25, 2009, 04:39:26 PM

Hows about we give the guy a season before we gauge what he does?

Otherwise, a lot of this is just pure nonsense.

PURE nonsense indeed.

ABuccsFan

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#80 : May 25, 2009, 04:57:38 PM

I should note that Kiffin was just as guilty of not giving back-ups adequate practice reps nor sufficient playing time to speed up their development.
You mean like Tanard Jackson?

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"For a brief, shining, moment in history, a select breed truly lived free.\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\".....Unknown Author.

OKC PAC

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#81 : May 25, 2009, 05:01:50 PM

I should note that Kiffin was just as guilty of not giving back-ups adequate practice reps nor sufficient playing time to speed up their development.
You mean like Tanard Jackson?
Yea and Davin Joseph/Sears/Trueblodd/Penn/Caddy/Grads/Clayton...the problem is that the majority of the players proved their worth to the team, can't help it that grads/clayton sucked

Bring back GRUDEN!!!

BucFan9720

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#82 : May 25, 2009, 05:04:09 PM

I should note that Kiffin was just as guilty of not giving back-ups adequate practice reps nor sufficient playing time to speed up their development.
You mean like Tanard Jackson?

T-Jax earned his spot. Raheem vouched his ass off for T-Jax to start over Will Allen as a rookie.

BucFan9720

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#83 : May 25, 2009, 05:06:24 PM

I should note that Kiffin was just as guilty of not giving back-ups adequate practice reps nor sufficient playing time to speed up their development.
You mean like Tanard Jackson?
Yea and Davin Joseph/Sears/Trueblodd/Penn/Caddy/Grads/Clayton...the problem is that the majority of the players proved their worth to the team, can't help it that grads/clayton sucked

Its no secret that Kiffin preferred older players over young players. Gruden was very open to giving young guys a chance but the leash was very short with him. Kiffin on the other hand was not as open as Gruden was. Theres a lot of good defensive players on this team that havent been given a chance, and this is their year. The Steelers would have never found out about James Harrison if they didnt cut Joey Porter first.

Simms2Clayton05

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#84 : May 25, 2009, 05:15:43 PM

A bunch of whiny women on this site.

Just because people think Morris is a crap choice as head coach relative to Gruden doesn't mean they are whiny women. � It means they think Morris is a crap choice. � There were a ton of people complaining about Gruden as well when he was coaching here. � �Everyone has their opinion.

I think it is fair for you to state your opinion about what you think about the coach. I dont think it is fair to say that the coach should be fired now before he has even coached a game. I dont think it is fair to say that the guy is a bad coach before he has even coached a game. Which is what Java, PAC, and LAC have been doing ever since Gruden got fired. If you are really a fan, I think you should hope that the guy does well instead of hoping that he fails just so that you will be right. Swallow your pride and be a buc fan first if you call yourself one. If you dont call yourself a fan then go ahead say whatever you want because we wont listen to you.
I was surprised by Java.. I guess he liked the 8-8, 9-7 no playoffs or 1st round playoff losses 39 year old rag armed QB rut we were in.

The team needed to be rebuilt.  But the coach was not the problem.  The problem was the situation he was put in.   I've said this numerous times, but I'll say it again.   Bucs win the superbowl in 2002 and many predict that the Bucs may even go undefeated in 2003.  2003 Brian Kelly goes down and the team collapses with weak links like Wansley getting ripped to shreds in the 2ndary.  Amazing how the loss of one key defensive player makes such a big difference, but it did that year.   So 2003 is a bad year.   2004 they go out and sign veterans to try to shore up positions they think are weaknesses to make another run at the superbowl.   After all, 2003 would have been a success had only Kelly stayed healthy.   And Kelly was back this year as well as some new CB's for a bit of depth.   Problem is that the veterans like Deese, Garner, Steussie, Stinchcomb, Wade, etc were not any upgrade at all.   And letting Sapp go due to McFarland having a huge contract hurt.  And letting Lynch go thinking Phillips was ready was a disaster.   So the 2004 team really was not a superbowl caliber team at all - instead it was terrible.   By 2005, Gruden needed to turn the team around quickly or he'd be fired.   It was time to rebuild, but he did not have that luxury.  So he pieced together a team that made the playoffs again.   Everyone was happy again.   2006 was a total collapse since both Simms and McCown went out for the year and the Bucs ended up starting Gradkowski.   Had the Glazers fired Gruden at that point, it would have made sense.   But he had to produce in 2007 or be fired.  So he gets a vet QB in Garcia and they make the playoffs in 2007.   The same in 2008, no playoffs, but a pretty solid year with Garcia at QB.   If the Glazers wanted to rebuild (which was absolutely necessary), they could have told Gruden that they wanted him to tear the team down and rebuild it.  That they were willing to accept 2 years of losing seasons to get this team built back into a championship type team.   And that Gruden had no risk of being fired for those 2 years.   After all, Gruden was still under contract for 2 years and Gruden is a better coach than Morris.    I believe the Glazers thought that would make the team too stale for the fans and that ticket sales would suffer.  That making a change to a new guy would allow them to lose for a few seasons while rebuilding and still keep the fans hopes up since it was a new regime.  However, that's not what has happened.  People don't have faith in Morris already.   They'd have been better off sticking with Gruden to rebuild and taken the criticism from guys like Duemig.   It would have been better for the team in the long run because 4 years from now, the Bucs would have another superbowl trophy with Gruden.      

I agree with your opinion about Gruden and that he was a good coach. However it was time for a change because all you would hear from the media was how bad Gruden was and that he needed to go. It got so bad with the media saying it that then the fans agreed with the media and asked for Grudens head too. Now we have a fresh start and we have a Franchise QB to be excited about. The only thing that fans should be worried about is the fact that this guy is young at 32 and that there is so much uncertainty about where the team is going. That is no reason however to say that the team is going to suck and that Morris wont amount to anything. As a buc fan I am also worried about the uncertainty, but it is also exciting me because I dont know what is going to to happen. I will stand by my team and cheer for them no matter what happens. If Morris fails then bring another coach in, but I am willing to give the guy a chance because he hasnt proven to me that he will be a bad coach and he hasnt proven to me that he will be a good coach. Lets give him at least a season to see what it will be like with Morris as our head coach. Hey maybe you will like him after this year, who knows? I hope that he becomes our coach for the next ten years and becomes the next best coach after Gruden and Dungy. The team and the city of tampa needs it.

CyberDilemma

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#85 : May 25, 2009, 05:30:17 PM

I should note that Kiffin was just as guilty of not giving back-ups adequate practice reps nor sufficient playing time to speed up their development.
You mean like Tanard Jackson?
Yea and Davin Joseph/Sears/Trueblodd/Penn/Caddy/Grads/Clayton...the problem is that the majority of the players proved their worth to the team, can't help it that grads/clayton sucked

These guys were all starters. I'm talking about having adequate depth and giving back-ups sufficient reps in practice so when they are called upon (which is inevitable) they can perform like starters. New England has as many injuries every year as anyone else. They don't whine and make excuses about it. They just plug and go with the next guy in line and it works because they are prepared for it.
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