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C2asante

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#75 : May 25, 2009, 09:28:18 AM

If you belive that the being God created in his own image and likeness is no better than a dog then there is not much to discuss and it explains a lot about the treatment people who ascribe to this thinking have given other humans for centuries.

SON-OF-ZELL

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#76 : May 25, 2009, 11:17:02 AM

No character problems at all, have a ton of friends and like them more but random people like yourself? You are lower too me. My mind set. I am not religious so being Gods creation means nothing to me.   Call me whatever you want it doesn't mean anything


"Scientifically (whatever) we are just another species or mammals."

Well I'll call you pretty ignorant with that logic.  Who the heck  built your house, assembled your car, and created the most complex systems of communication known unto this point in history ??    MAN you dolt.  Wasn't a dog or a frickin dolphin, or a bear.  Just proves your pretty simple minded.


ATLBucsFan

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#77 : May 25, 2009, 02:42:58 PM

You bring up how many other breeds are better as home pets. I disagree. If you care to, check out this website:

http://www.atts.org/index.html

Just to name a few breeds that the American Pit Bull Terrier scored better than on the temperament test:
Beagle
Border Collie
Chihuahua
**CENSORED**er Spaniel
Dachshund(Standard)
Golden Retriever
Greyhound
Jack Russel Terrier
Lhasa Apso
Miniature Poodle
Pomeranian
Saint Bernard
Shih Tzu
Toy Poodle
Weimaraner
Do not believe everything that you read.. Whoever the moron is that did this study must have been high at the time to include beagles and golden retrievers on this list...

I agree that you should always take online "evidence" with a grain of salt.

I just read the info on the American Temprement Test web site - it's a pretty interesting study. It has been ongoing for over 30 years and has (to date) systematically tested the temperament of over 30,000 dogs of all breeds/mixed breeds. The testing includes measurements for reaction to stimuli (strangers, gunshots, being approached in a threatening manner) including aggressive behavior.

Average pass rate for all dogs is 81.6%, Pit Bulls 85.3%. So, at least based on this study, the behavioral makeup of Pit Bulls as a breed falls in line with other dog breeds, better than some, worse than others.  This fits my own experience with Pit Bulls - I've encountered dogs of this breed both sweet/docile and unpredictable/agressive. What has been consistent (to me) is that the well-behaved dogs were owned by responsible adults and the sketchy dogs had (seemingly) less responsible owners. The animals are powerful, but seem to have a high "need to please" making them very moldable to the wants of their owners (both good and bad).
 
There is plenty of anecdotal and hard statistcal evidence (# bites/injuries/deaths involving Pit Bulls) linking Pit Bulls to unpredictable/agressive behavior. But statistical correlation does not establish causality - I believe there is more to the story behind the numbers. The "Pit Bull Problem" is a recent phenomenon - the breed has historically been widely owned in the US without being a public menace for decades. Rather than DNA that's hard-wired for aggression, this is what I see driving those statisics:

Pit Bulls have a "tough" dog reputation rooted in illegal dog fighting => irresponsible people covet/own Pit Bulls => poorly raised/handled & aggressive dogs => Pit Bull attacks on innocent people and animals => sensationalized media coverage => worsening reputation => public fear & increased demand from more irresponsible owners => irresponsible breeders ramping up to profit from demand => more bad owners/badly bred/raised dogs => more attacks => more sensationalized media coverage => worsening reputation =>  more public fear & higher demand by irresponsible owners => ongoing vicious circle of incidents, media coverage, and fear & demand.

At least this is my take - and the whole pattern has a lot more to do with what people are thinking and doing...than with the essential nature of the dog. My guess is if Pit Bulls were to be banned, another "tough" breed would get plugged right into the same sick loop. Also, I've seen too much variation in Pit Bull behavior to buy into sweeping generalizations or stereotypes of temprement based on breed.

Harrison's responsibilities were to both control his dog and protect his child and he failed.

OKC PAC

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#78 : May 25, 2009, 05:14:01 PM

No character problems at all, have a ton of friends and like them more but random people like yourself? You are lower too me. My mind set. I am not religious so being Gods creation means nothing to me. Call me whatever you want it doesn't mean anything


"Scientifically (whatever) we are just another species or mammals."

Well I'll call you pretty ignorant with that logic. Who the heck built your house, assembled your car, and created the most complex systems of communication known unto this point in history ?? MAN you dolt. Wasn't a dog or a frickin dolphin, or a bear. Just proves your pretty simple minded.
Just now figuring this out?

Bring back GRUDEN!!!

Booker

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#79 : May 25, 2009, 11:14:29 PM

I'm the simple minded one?

Booker

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#80 : May 25, 2009, 11:20:52 PM

Fine, I'll be more intellectual for you. God is great and created us and we are the greatest thing to happen to this earth even though we kill eachother and destroy the world's environment. We will always be the greatest because we make cars and buildings. We are awesome and I care so much about all the strangers in the world.

RudeGuy

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#81 : May 25, 2009, 11:31:27 PM

Fine, I'll be more intellectual for you. God is great and created us and we are the greatest thing to happen to this earth even though we kill eachother and destroy the world's environment. We will always be the greatest because we make cars and buildings. We are awesome and I care so much about all the strangers in the world.

I LOVE YOU TOO MAN! :-*


bucmebaby

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#82 : May 26, 2009, 12:31:40 PM

Over my lifetime I've had many dogs, many breeds and crosses. I have to say the best-tempered dogs I've had are Labradors. I've had kids ride on their backs, use them as pillows, and even pull their ears. (That got one grand kid a sample for his own ears.) The dogs just don't react badly. Never even a threat of a bite. I love most dogs, but Labs are the best in my book.

"And, when you want something, all the universe conspires to help you achieve it." Paulo Coelho - The Alchemist

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#83 : May 26, 2009, 04:45:01 PM

You bring up how many other breeds are better as home pets. I disagree. If you care to, check out this website:

http://www.atts.org/index.html

Just to name a few breeds that the American Pit Bull Terrier scored better than on the temperament test:
Beagle
Border Collie
Chihuahua
**CENSORED**er Spaniel
Dachshund(Standard)
Golden Retriever
Greyhound
Jack Russel Terrier
Lhasa Apso
Miniature Poodle
Pomeranian
Saint Bernard
Shih Tzu
Toy Poodle
Weimaraner
Do not believe everything that you read.. Whoever the moron is that did this study must have been high at the time to include beagles and golden retrievers on this list...

I agree that you should always take online "evidence" with a grain of salt.

I just read the info on the American Temprement Test web site - it's a pretty interesting study. It has been ongoing for over 30 years and has (to date) systematically tested the temperament of over 30,000 dogs of all breeds/mixed breeds. The testing includes measurements for reaction to stimuli (strangers, gunshots, being approached in a threatening manner) including agressive behavior.

Average pass rate for all dogs is 81.6%, Pit Bulls 85.3%. So, at least based on this study, the behavioral makeup of Pit Bulls as a breed falls in line with other dog breeds, better than some, worse than others.  This fits my own experience with Pit Bulls - I've encountered dogs of this breed both sweet/docile and unpredictable/agressive. What has been consistent (to me) is that the well-behaved dogs were owned by responsible adults and the sketchy dogs had (seemingly) less responsible owners. The animals are powerful, but seem to have a high "need to please" making them very moldable to the wants of their owners (both good and bad).
 
There is plenty of anecdotal and hard statistcal evidence (# bites/injuries/deaths involving Pit Bulls) linking Pit Bulls to unpredictable/agressive behavior. But statistical correlation does not establish causality - I believe there is more to the story behind the numbers. The "Pit Bull Problem" is a recent phenomenon - the breed has historically been widely owned in the US without being a public menace for decades. Rather than DNA that's hard-wired for aggression, this is what I see driving those statisics:

Pit Bulls have a "tough" dog reputation rooted in illegal dog fighting => irresponsible people covet/own Pit Bulls => poorly raised/handled & aggressive dogs => Pit Bull attacks on innocent people and animals => sensationalized media coverage => worsening reputation => public fear & increased demand from more irresponsible owners => irresponsible breeders ramping up to profit from demand => more bad owners/badly bred/raised dogs => more attacks => more sensationalized media coverage => worsening reputation =>  more public fear & higher demand by irresponsible owners => ongoing vicious circle of incidents, media coverage, and fear & demand.

At least this is my take - and the whole pattern has a lot more to do with what people are thinking and doing...than with the essential nature of the dog. My guess is if Pit Bulls were to be banned, another "tough" breed would get plugged right into the same sick loop. Also, I've seen too much variation in Pit Bull behavior to buy into sweeping generalizations or stereotypes of temprement based on breed.

Harrison's responsibilities were to both control his dog and protect his child and he failed.


Very well stated!  I agree

Badabing

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#84 : May 26, 2009, 04:58:50 PM

Again, I will love my dog more than i will any one I do not know or will ever meet.

Wow dude. I don't even know how to respond to that..... so I won't.

I agree with bookert.  When my dog died, I cried my eyes out.  When some person I do not even know dies, I couldn't care less.  Don't mean to be harsh about it...but Hate, if you ever had a pet, U'd either understand or you simply don't get attached to animals like most people do.

When you have a pet you see every day for 10-15 years, that pet becomes a part of your family.

CROMAG

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#85 : May 26, 2009, 09:50:01 PM

I don't remember who made this quote, but it says all we need to know:

"Just because we are born of the human race does not give us more rights, it gives us more responsibilty."

Good quote. I also like this one:

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated” – Mahatma Gandhi

CROMAG

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#86 : May 26, 2009, 09:53:01 PM

Quote

I agree that you should always take online "evidence" with a grain of salt.

I just read the info on the American Temprement Test web site - it's a pretty interesting study. It has been ongoing for over 30 years and has (to date) systematically tested the temperament of over 30,000 dogs of all breeds/mixed breeds. The testing includes measurements for reaction to stimuli (strangers, gunshots, being approached in a threatening manner) including agressive behavior.

Average pass rate for all dogs is 81.6%, Pit Bulls 85.3%. So, at least based on this study, the behavioral makeup of Pit Bulls as a breed falls in line with other dog breeds, better than some, worse than others.  This fits my own experience with Pit Bulls - I've encountered dogs of this breed both sweet/docile and unpredictable/agressive. What has been consistent (to me) is that the well-behaved dogs were owned by responsible adults and the sketchy dogs had (seemingly) less responsible owners. The animals are powerful, but seem to have a high "need to please" making them very moldable to the wants of their owners (both good and bad).
 
There is plenty of anecdotal and hard statistcal evidence (# bites/injuries/deaths involving Pit Bulls) linking Pit Bulls to unpredictable/agressive behavior. But statistical correlation does not establish causality - I believe there is more to the story behind the numbers. The "Pit Bull Problem" is a recent phenomenon - the breed has historically been widely owned in the US without being a public menace for decades. Rather than DNA that's hard-wired for aggression, this is what I see driving those statisics:

Pit Bulls have a "tough" dog reputation rooted in illegal dog fighting => irresponsible people covet/own Pit Bulls => poorly raised/handled & aggressive dogs => Pit Bull attacks on innocent people and animals => sensationalized media coverage => worsening reputation => public fear & increased demand from more irresponsible owners => irresponsible breeders ramping up to profit from demand => more bad owners/badly bred/raised dogs => more attacks => more sensationalized media coverage => worsening reputation =>  more public fear & higher demand by irresponsible owners => ongoing vicious circle of incidents, media coverage, and fear & demand.

At least this is my take - and the whole pattern has a lot more to do with what people are thinking and doing...than with the essential nature of the dog. My guess is if Pit Bulls were to be banned, another "tough" breed would get plugged right into the same sick loop. Also, I've seen too much variation in Pit Bull behavior to buy into sweeping generalizations or stereotypes of temprement based on breed.

Harrison's responsibilities were to both control his dog and protect his child and he failed.

Quote

Amazingly well put. Couldn't agree more.



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#87 : May 26, 2009, 10:57:17 PM

Again, I will love my dog more than i will any one I do not know or will ever meet.

Wow dude. I don't even know how to respond to that..... so I won't.

I agree with bookert. When my dog died, I cried my eyes out. When some person I do not even know dies, I couldn't care less. Don't mean to be harsh about it...but Hate, if you ever had a pet, U'd either understand or you simply don't get attached to animals like most people do.

When you have a pet you see every day for 10-15 years, that pet becomes a part of your family.


I didn't cry when I divorced a girl I was with for 20 yrs..... could never cry over an animal.

When my son was about 3, i got him a puppy. It bit him and drew blood, playing or not, it was outta here.
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