Gruden and Dungy...Bottom Line Wins and Losses

[bucnut]

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[keeponbucn]

You dont think that Dungy had anything to do with us winning the SB in 2002? Just curious because Gruden didnt touch the defense and it was ranked #1. That defense is what took us to the Superbowl and I do believe that it was still using the Tampa 2 that Dungy created. No way Gruden goes without that Defense and no way Dungy wins it without Gruden knowing Oakland's offense. Dungy now has a Superbowl win under his belt and he is better shape to go again next year then we are. What's funny is Indy is cap straped and they are still going strong.

Are you really that....nevermind.

Karen, so what you're saying is that defense ran itself in 2002? Or that Dungy magically coached the defense from Indi?
So, the same defense that Dungy created wouldn't have won the SB without Gruden's knowledge of the Raiders?
God, you can't be that stupid.

Indi's cap strapped but they have ONE OF THE BEST OFFENSES THIS LEAGUE HAS SEEN IN YEARS. DUNGY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT SIDE OF THE BALL. WTF is wrong with you?

Sure, it only took Dungy 5 years to FINNALLY not waste that prolific offense, good job Dungy! Way to go.

[tampabayfan]

You guys act like Gruden came in day one and created a whole team from scratch and won a SB.  He did not do that. He road the coattails of the defense all the way to the playoffs. Kiffin was running the D just as Callahan was running the Raider offense. It was already in place all he had to do was continue what was being done before. Our offense really did not click until the playofffs. The San Fran, Philly games were excellent team won games. The Superbowl was pretty much Pittman and the Defense. Why does everyone act like Gruden is god and Dungy is trash when it took both guys to get the job done?  This team is now all Grudens and its a mess.

Thats exactly what happened in Indy, the defense finally did its job in the playoffs to help the offense out. It took Dungy 5 years to finally get that D in order.  If you say Gruden got the offense in order well may I present the current Gruden led offense that is ranked 31.  Its had 3 years worth of full draft picks and pretty much all going to the offense.  Its had a number of free agents from Steussie, McCardell, Pittman to Garner and Schroeder, yet it one of the worst offenses in the league.  Where the lack of draft picks have hit us is the defense. The big addition to the D in all these years is Hovan.  The big draft pick is Ruud.  Beyond that not much.

[Boid Fink]

You act like you can't think of anything else.  Go back to the TBBBB.  Post something else.  You and Karen must be sisters, or at least followers of the church of Bucsguru.

[Skull and Bones]

Can we get this stupid thread to 6 pages?  I have no doubt.

[tampabayfan]

You act like you can't think of anything else. Go back to the TBBBB. Post something else. You and Karen must be sisters, or at least followers of the church of Bucsguru.

yeah I'll see you over there. I post on a wide variety of topics this happens to be the thread near the top that feel like posting in.  YOu guys spend more time boosting it up with off-topic stuff.  hey I am trying to talk on topic.

[Boid Fink]

You act like you can't think of anything else. Go back to the TBBBB. Post something else. You and Karen must be sisters, or at least followers of the church of Bucsguru.

yeah I'll see you over there. I post on a wide variety of topics this happens to be the thread near the top that feel like posting in. YOu guys spend more time boosting it up with off-topic stuff. hey I am trying to talk on topic.

Just copy this, and you can paste on any number of your responses...

"I hate Gruden".

There you go.  You can save yourself the energy.

[keeponbucn]

You guys act like Gruden came in day one and created a whole team from scratch and won a SB. He did not do that. He road the coattails of the defense all the way to the playoffs. Kiffin was running the D just as Callahan was running the Raider offense. It was already in place all he had to do was continue what was being done before. Our offense really did not click until the playofffs. The San Fran, Philly games were excellent team won games. The Superbowl was pretty much Pittman and the Defense. Why does everyone act like Gruden is god and Dungy is trash when it took both guys to get the job done? This team is now all Grudens and its a mess.

Thats exactly what happened in Indy, the defense finally did its job in the playoffs to help the offense out. It took Dungy 5 years to finally get that D in order. If you say Gruden got the offense in order well may I present the current Gruden led offense that is ranked 31. Its had 3 years worth of full draft picks and pretty much all going to the offense. Its had a number of free agents from Steussie, McCardell, Pittman to Garner and Schroeder, yet it one of the worst offenses in the league. Where the lack of draft picks have hit us is the defense. The big addition to the D in all these years is Hovan. The big draft pick is Ruud. Beyond that not much.

Yeah, I guess the offense that scored 29pts a game in the playoffs had NOTHING to do with wining a SB in 2002. That's on Gruden, he brought in new offensive players and made it work, big time.

You guys act like it's easy to come into a new team and win the players over and win a SB. If anything what Gruden did was more difficult than what Dungy has done. It's taken Dungy lightyears to get that defense to even sniff becoming mediocre. Even this past year they gave up the most rushing yards in league history, wow, great work Dungy.

Garner, Shcroder, Stussie, and McCardel aren't on the team anymore, why are you bringing them into the discussion about this years offense?

you don't have the facts TBfan, you just don't. It's been two years of a full compliment of draft picks and thank god they've been on offense, that side of the ball's been neglected for years. This year sucked, having a rookie QB makes your entire offense look atrocious and if you claim to have played before then why is it hard for you to understand?

[tampabayfan]

Thats excatly my point most of these offensive players that we brought in to improve the offense are all gone and didnt do a darn thing.  Clayton--high draft pick, fizzled out, Caddy--high draft pick, parked, Pittman--now on the special teams, Becht--still not where he should be, about everyone on the o-line except Walker--all Gruden's guys that can't block a baby from getting to the qb.  All these changes, all these "upgrades", all these high draft picks--pretty much wasted so far.  who is to blame for that?  The only players left from when Gruden got here are Alstott and Walker.  Its ranked 31--do you realize that he's had numerous FAs and several high picks put into this offense and its horrible. Don't you think with these FAs and draft picks that the offense should be better by now?  How many more FAs and draft picks do we need to waste before people see that Gruden isnt doing a very good job with the offense?

[bucnut]

click

[tampabayfan]

thanks for the bump--wouldnt it better to let the thread fall if you dont like it?

[Bucfanut]

Gruden 5 years with the team = 3 losing seasons, 2 playoff seasons

Dungy 6 years with the team = 1 losing season, 4 playoff seasons

Superbowls= Gruden-1, Dungy-0

You dont think that Dungy had anything to do with us winning the SB in 2002? Just curious because Gruden didnt touch the defense and it was ranked #1. That defense is what took us to the Superbowl and I do believe that it was still using the Tampa 2 that Dungy created. No way Gruden goes without that Defense and no way Dungy wins it without Gruden knowing Oakland's offense. Dungy now has a Superbowl win under his belt and he is better shape to go again next year then we are. What's funny is Indy is cap straped and they are still going strong.

Dungy's Buc offense in his last 3 playoff games here: 6, 3, 9 points scored
Gruden's Buc offense in his superbowl season here: 31, 20, 27 points scored (that is EXCLUDING points scored by the D)

oh, and nice job showing how deep your hatred for Gruden is that you denigrate the defense's performance in the Superbowl. Of course we were a team built on D to win that SB, what the hell was he supposed to do, overturn the entire defense his 1st year here ?Didn't know that was a prerequisite for him to make a SB win count. in the eyes of Gruden haters Most of the team's cap room was tied up in the defense, and has been for many years... so of course the team was going to be defense heavy but that said, when it counted most in 02, our offense stepped it up. Not only that, but many members of the Bucs defense in 02 said that Gruden motivated them to be even greater (ever wonder why they went from being an underachieving unit in Dungy's final year to a unit that allowed just 196 points in Gruden's 1st year? think about it)

As for the present, you really believe Dungy has something to do with Indy's offense being as good as it is? Spare me. Give him credit for getting the defense to play better when it counted the same way Gruden did our offense when it counted most;

[Bucfanut]

Thats excatly my point most of these offensive players that we brought in to improve the offense are all gone and didnt do a darn thing. Clayton--high draft pick, fizzled out, Caddy--high draft pick, parked, Pittman--now on the special teams, Becht--still not where he should be, about everyone on the o-line except Walker--all Gruden's guys that can't block a baby from getting to the qb. All these changes, all these "upgrades", all these high draft picks--pretty much wasted so far. who is to blame for that? The only players left from when Gruden got here are Alstott and Walker. Its ranked 31--do you realize that he's had numerous FAs and several high picks put into this offense and its horrible. Don't you think with these FAs and draft picks that the offense should be better by now? How many more FAs and draft picks do we need to waste before people see that Gruden isnt doing a very good job with the offense?

Writing off Cadillac after just one bad year? Writing Dan Buenning off after he's shown to be pretty good when healthy? Writing off Davin Joseph and Trueblood after their ROOKIE years, as well as Stovall? How's that work? I didn't; know players were solely judged on their rookie seasons, thought they got more time in the league to prove themselves. Thanks for educating us with that brilliant insight, TBF; remember that folks, one bad rookie season=bust, or at least it does in TBF's anti Gruden brigade. As for free agents, this is the 1ST time he's had real money to spend, Becht was a bargain basement signing due to our bad cap situation that was left over from your buddy Rich Mckay. And before you bring up Steussie and friends, that had little effect on the overall cap situation compared to what traitor Rich did to this team.

[karen anderson]

You dont think that Dungy had anything to do with us winning the SB in 2002? Just curious because Gruden didnt touch the defense and it was ranked #1. That defense is what took us to the Superbowl and I do believe that it was still using the Tampa 2 that Dungy created. No way Gruden goes without that Defense and no way Dungy wins it without Gruden knowing Oakland's offense. Dungy now has a Superbowl win under his belt and he is better shape to go again next year then we are. What's funny is Indy is cap straped and they are still going strong.

Are you really that....nevermind.

Karen, so what you're saying is that defense ran itself in 2002? Or that Dungy magically coached the defense from Indi?
So, the same defense that Dungy created wouldn't have won the SB without Gruden's knowledge of the Raiders?
God, you can't be that stupid.

Indi's cap strapped but they have ONE OF THE BEST OFFENSES THIS LEAGUE HAS SEEN IN YEARS. DUNGY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT SIDE OF THE BALL. WTF is wrong with you?

Sure, it only took Dungy 5 years to FINNALLY not waste that prolific offense, good job Dungy! Way to go.

I don't know what the hell is wrong with you, but I didn't say any of that.  Look at the quote---it doesn't say Karen!

[keeponbucn]

I don't know what the hell is wrong with you, but I didn't say any of that. Look at the quote---it doesn't say Karen!

OMG I thought it was  Karen post! You and TBfan are almost the same.