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cvillebucfan

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: February 07, 2007, 09:06:36 PM

Last year Scouts Inc had 1 player that was rated as a 99 overall. This year there are 2 players that are rated 99 overall. Those 2 players are none other than Joe Thomas and Calvin Johnson. Followed by Gaines Adams (98), Brady Quinn (97), Alan Branch (97) and Adrian Peterson (97). From the looks of this wether you like Quinn or you hate Quinn he is rated right in there with the studs we all hear about in Leinart, Young and Cutler. Now Leinart was the top rated QB per Scouts Inc. last year at a 98. I think all 3 of those QB's have a very bright future for their teams. Quinn is arguably as pro ready as Leinart due to being under the tutledge of Charlie Weiss. What is the one position that we desperately seek? you guessed it QB.

Ok, before all hell breaks lose here with this thread I am not saying we need to draft a QB. I am proposing this. If we cannot snatch Joe Thomas or Calvin Johnson we should either A. Draft Quinn or B. Trade and move back to get Okoye and an additional 2nd round pick. Anything else IMHO is not a good move. What other move could we make, trade down and draft a DE? To me the need for a defensive end is not the priority of Okoye. No one can convince me that Anderson or Adams would fit better into this scheme than Okoye. Gimmie a R2 DE and Okoye in R1 any day of the week. If you pass on Okoye there you damn sure better draft Marcus Thomas or you have serious issues at DT. I firmly believe that Okoye will be the Tommie Harris, Warren Sapp, inside disruptive DT that is exactly what the Dr ordered to help fix the Tampa Bay DL. Better prospect than Bunkley and Tommie Harris IMHO, I truly believe that.

I know a lot of this is predicated on how FA pans out but from a shear standpoint of here and now with no moves being made what are our 3 major problems on this team and what 3 problems can be addressed with elite talent? We have basically nothing certain at QB and are hoping on Simms to make that step fwd. On defense we lack the interior pass rush/ run stopping force at DT. We also are lacking the elite LT on the OLine. If CJ is there you take him shearly because he will be a dominant playmaker and has the most upside of any WR this side of Randy moss, without the attitude.

I know we all talk about what we should do but what do you propose should be done should about the possibility of drafting Quinn should he be there? If CJ and JT are gone IMHO we have one of two choices, take quinn who as I have mentioned grades out and as the franchise QB (love him or hate him) or move down, get a 2nd rounder and try and acquire Okoye.

I think we should put more thought into drafting Quinn than what some here are doing. Not saying we should but I think we should really consider this unless we want to continuously want to eat of the "leftovers" of the NFL's washed up QBs.



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#1 : February 07, 2007, 09:13:13 PM

Good post, though I disagree about Quinn.  I'm not sure how much stock to put into those ratings, especially when they're all crowded at the top--how much different, really, is a '99' vs. '98'?  What would be really interesting is to see how some of the following guys rated on the same scale, when they were being drafted:

David Carr
Mike Williams
Robert Gallery
Charles Rogers
etc.
etc.

dalbuc

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#2 : February 07, 2007, 09:18:44 PM

All those guys were very highly rated as well.....except BMW. Bottom line is guys miss but if because some high picks miss you don't want to take high picks, well some 90 rated players have missed and a ton of 85 players have missed.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

Mellow

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#3 : February 07, 2007, 09:20:34 PM

That wasn't entirely my point, but you're right.  We both agree there's a positive correlation between rating and NFL success.  I was just curious how significant '99' was vs. '98' vs. '97' etc.  Seems like a classic case of grade compression.

krazybuc

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#4 : February 07, 2007, 09:21:50 PM

or B. Trade and move back to get Okoye and an additional 2nd round pick.

god it gets so old seein trade down on every other post.... like it's just that magically easy to trade down. all the bucs have to do is say, here, we dont want this pick, someone give us some comparable picks and voila it's done.

dalbuc

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#5 : February 07, 2007, 09:24:03 PM

That wasn't entirely my point, but you're right.  We both agree there's a positive correlation between rating and NFL success.  I was just curious how significant '99' was vs. '98' vs. '97' etc.  Seems like a classic case of grade compression.

They have 26 players rated 90 or above and that is their line for R1 prospects. This likely won't work as well as it should but I'll cut n' paste those rankings in:


Calvin Johnson   WR   6'4"   225   GEORGIA TECH   99           
Joe Thomas   OT   6'6"   310   WISCONSIN   99           
Gaines Adams   DE   6'4"   261   CLEMSON   98           
Brady Quinn   QB   6'3"   224   NOTRE DAME   97           
Alan Branch   DT   6'5"   328   MICHIGAN   97           
Adrian Peterson   RB   6'1"   219   OKLAHOMA   97           
Jamaal Anderson   DE   6'5"   273   ARKANSAS   96           
Laron Landry   S   6'2"   202   LSU   96           
Ted Ginn Jr.   WR   6'0"   180   OHIO STATE   96           
Leon Hall   CB   5'11"   193   MICHIGAN   95           
Dwayne Jarrett   WR   6'4"   210   USC   95           
Reggie Nelson   S   6'0"   198   FLORIDA   95           
Amobi Okoye   DT   6'2"   287   LOUISVILLE   94           
Adam Carriker   DE   6'5"   292   NEBRASKA   94           
Lawrence Timmons   OLB   6'3"   232   FLORIDA STATE   93           
Ryan Kalil   OC   6'2"   291   USC   93           
Dwayne Bowe   WR   6'2"   222   LSU   93           
Levi Brown   OT   6'5"   323   PENN STATE   92           
Sidney Rice   WR   6'3"   195   SOUTH CAROLINA   92           
Darrelle Revis   CB   6'0"   188   PITTSBURGH   91           
Jarvis Moss   DE   6'5"   256   FLORIDA   91           
Patrick Willis   ILB   6'1"   240   MISSISSIPPI   90           
Charles Johnson   DE   6'2"   271   GEORGIA   90           
Ben Grubbs   OG   6'3"   305   AUBURN   90           
Aaron Ross   CB   6'0"   192   TEXAS   90           
Zach Miller   TE   6'4"   258   ARIZONA STATE   90           

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

cvillebucfan

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#6 : February 07, 2007, 09:26:06 PM

Mellow, very true and dal the same...

My thought with this whole draft and picking in an elite position is that in order to get a "difference maker" you have to pick one. Surely Gallery is for all intensive purposes a bust but if you want an great LT, you have to pick one.

I'm just starting to see things as how I laid out in my opening post. We need a LT (Joe Thomas), we need a QB (Brady Quinn) and we need a DT (Okoye). Those are our 3 big needs that need to be filled with an elite talent. Sure we could take Calvin Johnson. We don't necessarily need him but I feel he is such an extraordinary talent that if JT is gone then maybe he could be the guy. I'm seeing it like this JT, CJ, Quinn and Okoye as the 4 guys that we should be walking away with either by trading down (okoye) or by selecting where we pick. 3 of those 4 fit a vital need and the 4th (CJ) is just a dominant player that can't do anything but help your team.



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dalbuc

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#7 : February 07, 2007, 09:28:53 PM

I agree but add DE into the mix. People forget that that killer MIN team that pioneered our defense wasn't just the outstanding John Randle but also the excellent Chris Doleman who was on the all decade team.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

cvillebucfan

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#8 : February 07, 2007, 09:35:26 PM

Dal I don't disagree with you one bit. I still think that you have DE's out there potientially in R2 that you could get. Maybe not as elite as Adams or Anderson at the top third of R1 but when you look at rush DE's in this class and one gap DTs you have a handful or so of good edge rush guys (without getting into names) and you have one elite one gap DT in Okoye and a "roll of the dice" guy in Marcus Thomas.

If you look at our team what do we need more than anything? Prolly a DT! We have Hovan and Wymms at the moment.

But you are right, don't slip on the DE.

If you have it your way, would you rather have Okoye and 2nd or Anderson or Adams and nothing? I am going with okoye and the pick should it come to that.



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flyinbuc

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#9 : February 07, 2007, 09:45:20 PM

Iagree that you love a franchise LT and that they dont get traded, but neither do franchise qb's.  Might be a good time to roll the dice on a qb maybe quinn. Wouldnt it be nice to get the next great qb.  Man its tough watching other teams with the great qb.

cvillebucfan

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#10 : February 07, 2007, 10:41:13 PM

FB exactly my point. It is miserable to try to find a QB off the scrap heap and make him into something that he hasn't been, a viable QB. Not saying we should take Quinn as our #1 option at this point but I am warming up to this idea. As I said in the thread a lot of this is dependant upon what happens with FA and who we add or who we move for picks/players.



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#11 : February 07, 2007, 10:53:04 PM

It all depends on what people think is more of a need here?  Gruden stated that he'll be looking for a veteran QB in FA, while we know that really doesn't mean anything, I would say that I would rather go that route then drafting a QB with our 1st pick, because we really don't know if Gruden pulls a Simms play and keep him out to learn for a time (which I don't think he has the luxury to do at this point).  JT may very well be gone by the time we pick, and while CJ's film looks amazing, I guess I'm not sold with drafting a WR with our 1st again.  Would I be mad of we did? No.

But I do agree with Cville, guys like Okoye (with potential et al) don't come around very often.  While the same is being said for CJ and JT ( I am reading concerns about JT though)  I think we need to get back to what helped to make this team great, and it started at defense.  Okoye while young can be coached up to be a top DT for many years to come.

T

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#12 : February 08, 2007, 01:27:48 AM

I know this sounds crazy to alot of you naysayers but I think Simms still could turn out to be a good QB. But he seems like he needs to have alot of weapons around him to be a success. So draft the best player in the draft Calvin Johnson then concentrate on the defense with the 2nd round and free agency.


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#13 : February 08, 2007, 02:14:27 AM

My rankings:

blah blah blah

Who are the BUcs going to draft?  Well, after hearing "Pass rush, pass rush pass rush"...from the FO, it would be Gaines.

But looking at the roster, I hope it would be Thomas.

But it will be Calvin Johnson. 

Maybe Brady Quinn.

But maybe Okoye will be overvalued and get picked up by the BUcs.

Gar.

None of us knows, even the FO doesn't know.

Let it rest.


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#14 : February 08, 2007, 06:49:26 AM

That wasn't entirely my point, but you're right. We both agree there's a positive correlation between rating and NFL success. I was just curious how significant '99' was vs. '98' vs. '97' etc. Seems like a classic case of grade compression.

They have 26 players rated 90 or above and that is their line for R1 prospects. This likely won't work as well as it should but I'll cut n' paste those rankings in:


Calvin Johnson   WR   6'4"   225   GEORGIA TECH   99           
Joe Thomas   OT   6'6"   310   WISCONSIN   99           
Gaines Adams   DE   6'4"   261   CLEMSON   98           
Brady Quinn   QB   6'3"   224   NOTRE DAME   97           
Alan Branch   DT   6'5"   328   MICHIGAN   97           
Adrian Peterson   RB   6'1"   219   OKLAHOMA   97           
Jamaal Anderson   DE   6'5"   273   ARKANSAS   96           
Laron Landry   S   6'2"   202   LSU   96           
Ted Ginn Jr.   WR   6'0"   180   OHIO STATE   96           
Leon Hall   CB   5'11"   193   MICHIGAN   95           
Dwayne Jarrett   WR   6'4"   210   USC   95           
Reggie Nelson   S   6'0"   198   FLORIDA   95           
Amobi Okoye   DT   6'2"   287   LOUISVILLE   94           
Adam Carriker   DE   6'5"   292   NEBRASKA   94           
Lawrence Timmons   OLB   6'3"   232   FLORIDA STATE   93           
Ryan Kalil   OC   6'2"   291   USC   93           
Dwayne Bowe   WR   6'2"   222   LSU   93           
Levi Brown   OT   6'5"   323   PENN STATE   92           
Sidney Rice   WR   6'3"   195   SOUTH CAROLINA   92           
Darrelle Revis   CB   6'0"   188   PITTSBURGH   91           
Jarvis Moss   DE   6'5"   256   FLORIDA   91           
Patrick Willis   ILB   6'1"   240   MISSISSIPPI   90           
Charles Johnson   DE   6'2"   271   GEORGIA   90           
Ben Grubbs   OG   6'3"   305   AUBURN   90           
Aaron Ross   CB   6'0"   192   TEXAS   90           
Zach Miller   TE   6'4"   258   ARIZONA STATE   90           

Dal,
What happened to Jamarcus Russell?  Don't they think he is a round 1 talent?

Truths:
1.  Never have an argument with an idiot.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
2.  For some it would be better if they remained silent and be thought a fool than to speak and erase all doubt.
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