Health Care's future - note the committee Sanders sits on at the article's end

[Biggs3535]

This is Health Care related:

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=011008&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=6020772&referralPlaylistId=playlist

[dbucfan]

Yea it is - it is about this government misleading its' citizens with malice and forethought. 

[BUCFAN4LIFE]

I cower at the thought of govt run healthcare. Simply put, "when have the idiots in Washington" , ever really gotten it right. You now want them making healthcare decisions. This govt has proven time and time again they are for themselves and not the constituents they serve.

[ufojoe]

Can you prove collusion in Health Care UFO

It's my opinion. The prices of health insurance and big ticket health care items don't offer much variety if you're trying to shop around in the US. Now, if you want to go out of country for certain medical procedures, that's a different story. But you still need the $$$...

While it can be confusing - the better plans normally cost more, and the lesser plans less.  The more you let the insurer pick your health options the less you pay, the more choice you have the more you pay.  It is really that simple.

LOL. Really? Is that how it works? Like I said, IMO, it's collusion. I checked around for prices on all of the plans that cover just catastrophic care (high deductible) or ones that cover everything (very low deductible) and every plan in between. And guess what? The prices were very similar from company to company. on each type of plan.

It's really that simple.

When we debated this last year, I saw JG offer some great ideas on how we can fix our current mess. And I linked to articles on other countries that are doing well with their systems. What about you, dbuc? What are you recommending for the tens of millions without any coverage and/or under coverage?

The leading cause of bankruptcy in this country is from medical bills. So how do we fix that?

[ufojoe]

Here's one of the debates we had last year...

http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?topic=19667.0

[dbucfan]

The data used to set rates is set based upon valid loss experience via actuarial tables as you undoubted know.  The data is detailed to the point of service - the costs of an area are known to all who provide health insurance.  The variants are the level of autonomy you wish to have in selection of coverage and choice. 

What one chooses is what establishes price - most companies offer a variety of options based upon profitable outcomes in that location. 

So to metaphorically state what is truly a simplification - if you price 2 x 4s at several different stores you will see remarkable similarity of pricing.  The same with 2 x 6 lumber.  If one wishes select lumber they pay more.

And yes - the comparison of products is that simple - base upon your choice.

Now if one wishes to know what the variances are by venue - check the availability of doctors, the demand for services, State requirements, taxes and the status of Tort reform and a variety of other factors which all influence pricing - and you will find the value of the services will still be relatively similar. 

So you can feel there is collusion, and I can offer the various elements of costs are so well known to all insurers that rates are similar for similar products.  And therefore, absent some cost change within the measurable elements the costs will remain similar for all. 

The only way - again - is to change the individual components of cost.  The element most often noted is Tort reform, this takes into consideration 1. Standardized patient evaluation and treatment that protects the doctor from charges of under or over evaluation - commonly known as defensive medicine.  2.  Simply Tort reform - limiting the recovery or cases possible to pursue in a Court of Jurisdiction. 

But once again - it is the elements that need to change - and the permission of competition throughout the business that enables costs to lessen - costs of production, for doctors, hospitals, drug providers... and these elements can be adjusted to the end of the world - and those changes will be reflected in cost of healthcare based upon the service and choice options you select. 

Forgot to add my picks for change
1.  Tort reform using prescribed procedures for common maladies - as determined by the AMA
2.  Tort reform - recognizing all medicines are not good for all people - once test and approved the prescription is deemed acceptable as shown by agreement of the AMA and the FDA
3.  Reduction of review of medical care - the doctor prescribes using the agreed process - no need to touch any "normal" cases - reduces review.  The "odd" or exception case gets peer review by Doctor(s) based on electronic records. 

All three of the above if accepted provide complete bar to litigation.  Any exceptions are viable cases for litigation.

Reduces the assessment worries, defensive medicine, redundant checking and litigation. A good to fair start. 

Frankly those three changes would reduce


PS - the tort reform is the portion the President was unprepared or unwilling to discuss during his campaign stop with doctors last week

[dbucfan]

Having repeatedly heard the leading cause of bankruptcies is health related one would try to research and check same.  Offering the following - with the note of a crisis created is one that can be used.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/what_is_the_percentage_of_total_personal.ht

"A study published in 1999 by Pennsylvania State University and Abt Associates researchers looked at filings in five court districts, determining that medical bills and credit card debt were the biggest factors leading to bankruptcy. But a 2008 study by a business professor at the University of California, Davis, said that while medical issues certainly caused bankruptcy, the bigger problem was that families spent beyond their means, leaving them vulnerable to even minor disruptions. "Although our study supports the notion that adverse events contribute to personal bankruptcy filings, the findings emphasize that excessive consumption probably contributes more to the recent increase in personal bankruptcy filing." That study looked at filings in Delaware in 2003."

[John Galt?]

The leading cause of bankruptcy in this country is from medical bills. So how do we fix that?

It has already been "fixed". By creating the current Mortgage-fiasco econ crisis, medical bills are no longer the leading cause of bankruptcy, the collapse of the financial and auto industries are. That is how congress "fixes" things, just create a bigger problem to deflect your attention.

[ufojoe]

http://www.gazette.net/stories/06192009/businew172842_32533.shtml

Friday, June 19, 2009

A new national study showed that more than 60 percent of all personal bankruptcies in the country were related to medical problems and most of the people were middle-class and well-educated and had medical insurance.

The study, released June 4 from researchers at Cambridge (Mass.) Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Harvard Law School and Ohio University, surveyed the records of 2,314 people who filed for bankruptcy in 2007.

The report, a follow-up to a similar study in 2001, was published in The American Journal of Medicine. The number of bankruptcies attributed to medical problems rose 50 percent from the 2001 to 2007.

The problem has probably escalated even further with the economic downturn, as more workers lose their jobs and medical insurance, said Ohio University professor Deborah Thorne, a researcher for the 2001 and 2007 studies.

Of the people who filed for bankruptcy because of medical reasons, 75 percent had health insurance, but found they were under-insured and had to pay an average of $17,943 in out-of-pocket expenses, according to the study.

Nationally, one-fourth of people found their insurance canceled after either they or a family member suffered a disabling illness, according to the study.

"The U.S. health care financing system is broken and not only for the poor and uninsured. Middle-class families frequently collapse under the strain of a health care system that treats physical wounds, but often inflicts fiscal ones," said David U. Himmelstein, a Harvard medical professor.

Thorne interviewed one man who told her that when he was having his second heart attack he sat in the emergency room parking lot debating with his wife whether they could afford treatment because he had lost his job and his insurance, she said. After he had it treated, they had to file for bankruptcy because they could not afford to pay, Thorne said.

"You talk to the families and the problems they go through and it's heartbreaking," Thorne said.

Health insurance is not the panacea to affordable and accessible health care, she said.

"Even with insurance, people end up bankrupt," Thorne said. "That's the thing that is so dog-gone frustrating about this. It's so unethical. When they talk about the insurance industry stepping up and solving the problem I see it as doing nothing but exacerbating the problem."

"All this fear-mongering that the government will tell you who your doctor can be – my health insurance already does that," Thorne said.

[dbucfan]

Oh - in bold - well then that must be the true one - rather than folks with competing positions finding ways to make numbers to in the direction they want them to.  But if one uses bold - well that it the key - right Joe? 

You can check such reports as well as I - and I found for everyone there was an opposite.

Once reduced to common sense you are on your own.   

[dalbuc]

http://www.gazette.net/stories/06192009/businew172842_32533.shtml

Friday, June 19, 2009

A new national study showed that more than 60 percent of all personal bankruptcies in the country were related to medical problems and most of the people were middle-class and well-educated and had medical insurance.

Yeah and that study is all kinds of crap. The overwhelming majority of those folks who declared were close to going bankrupt before the  illness...almost anythi9ng would have pushed them over the edge. You could have magic pixies paying ofr health care and those folks would have gone under.

[dbucfan]

If 18K of medical expenses puts one under - well they were hanging on by their fingernails. 

[ufojoe]

Oh - in bold - well then that must be the true one - rather than folks with competing positions finding ways to make numbers to in the direction they want them to.  But if one uses bold - well that it the key - right Joe? 

You can check such reports as well as I - and I found for everyone there was an opposite.

Once reduced to common sense you are on your own.   

LOL. Sometimes I bold articles. Your response to the bold type is hilarious.

Wake up.

[ufojoe]

http://www.gazette.net/stories/06192009/businew172842_32533.shtml

Friday, June 19, 2009

A new national study showed that more than 60 percent of all personal bankruptcies in the country were related to medical problems and most of the people were middle-class and well-educated and had medical insurance.

Yeah and that study is all kinds of crap. The overwhelming majority of those folks who declared were close to going bankrupt before the  illness...almost anythi9ng would have pushed them over the edge. You could have magic pixies paying ofr health care and those folks would have gone under.

Give me the data for those people that shows they were close to going bankrupt.

[dbucfan]

Oh - in bold - well then that must be the true one - rather than folks with competing positions finding ways to make numbers to in the direction they want them to.� But if one uses bold - well that it the key - right Joe?�

You can check such reports as well as I - and I found for everyone there was an opposite.

Once reduced to common sense you are on your own.� �

LOL. Sometimes I bold articles. Your response to the bold type is hilarious.

Wake up.

I thought your bolding the article was hysteria.  And while I don't know exactly the reference Dal was making it is pretty clear this review of a study identified the same shortcoming in assessment  - "But a 2008 study by a business professor at the University of California, Davis, said that while medical issues certainly caused bankruptcy, the bigger problem was that families spent beyond their means, leaving them vulnerable to even minor disruptions. "Although our study supports the notion that adverse events contribute to personal bankruptcy filings, the findings emphasize that excessive consumption probably contributes more to the recent increase in personal bankruptcy filing." That study looked at filings in Delaware in 2003."