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bucsbum

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« : February 08, 2007, 11:14:40 AM »

Kiffin has always done well at Coaching young players into the NFL. Also While we still have great mentors like Brooks and Barber it might be a batter game plan to draft defense and FA offence.

I have to question Grudens approach and capability at getting the most out of young players long term.
It seems that all his offensive rookies are 1st year all-star. Then they ride off into the sunset.
Lets face it last year Clayton was suppose to have fully recovered but Clayton was a shell of a player  he once was.

the three rooky starters on offence from 2005 were hardly considered active participants in the offence

I say lets draft defense Kiffin will coach them up.
Rather then coach them out

alldaway

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« #1 : February 08, 2007, 11:29:57 AM »

I think the Bucs will draft BAP.

As for rookies both Gruden and Kiffen are reluctant to play rookies or young players.  Gruden in recent years had to out of necessity and Kiffen would prefer a veteran that knows what he is doing then an atheltic rookie that has no clue.




Feel Real Good

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« #2 : February 08, 2007, 11:33:14 AM »

Agree, just because nearly every one of Gruden's acquisitions on offense turn out to be lousy, he needs to suck it up and throw Monte a few bones.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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« #3 : February 08, 2007, 11:34:51 AM »

The longer players spend with our offensive coaches, the worse they get. Clayton, Caddy, Simms, Griese, Brad Johnson, etc. Galloway is like the only one that is still good, but probably because he takes every other practice off so he's not getting as much coaching. It's Kiffin's turn to get some prospects.

bucsbum

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« #4 : February 08, 2007, 11:36:04 AM »

Yes but give Kiffin 2-3 years with a young player and they turn into all pro it seems like
example Sapp, Lynch, Kelly, Barber, Quarles, Brooks, Jackson,

bucsbum

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« #5 : February 08, 2007, 11:39:32 AM »

It seems that Gruden coaches and practices to his scheme. Where Monte coaches technique and skill to the point he can plug a player in

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« #6 : February 08, 2007, 11:43:24 AM »

The Bucs will be draft BAP this time.  I highly doubt they have a defensive oriented draft nor  anoffensive oriented draft.

Kiffen is a good coach but he relies on veterans as well.  If he did not have the veterans he currently has the defense would struggle as well with young players. 

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« #7 : February 08, 2007, 11:51:15 AM »

ADW, Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it you who pointed out that 'BAP' rarely is exactly that?  Maybe BAP that fills a need (BAPTFAN).  Now the Bucs clearly have so many needs that BAP is nearly the same as BAPTFAN (!), but I'd still be surprised if they took, for example, Adrian Peterson at #3/4. 

Count me among those who think Monte is long overdue a group of first-day draft picks to work with, even if that means hedging BAP to fill some needs.  It's not like the Bucs' other drafts under Gruden have been guided by BAP exclusively--especially last year when they set out to draft themselves half of an offensive line, even if that meant taking a guard in R1. 

alldaway

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« #8 : February 08, 2007, 11:59:13 AM »

That is correct that BAP at the top of the draft usually ends up also at the same time filling a need as Dalbuc has stated in the past for teams with poor records.   Adrian Peterson is the exception to this rule as you highlighted.  But free agency is what will shape what the Bucs do.

Basically if the Bucs fill in all their needs before the draft (as Bruce prefers) he then is looking at the pure BAP that may not necessarily fill a need but add talent overall to the team.  Now it would not make much sense to draft AP from a salary cap perspective but if the goal is to assemble a solid 53 man roster and all the needs are addressed via free agency I could see Bruce pulling the trigger on AP.

The last two years becuase the Bucs were inactive in free agency due to the cap situation Bruce had to deviate from drafting BAP to drafting purely for need as the Bucs did not address their needs completely nor adequately in free agency.

Bruce ultimately prefers drafting BAP but can just accoringly depending on what happens in free agency.



finnbluebucs

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« #9 : February 08, 2007, 12:09:56 PM »

The Bucs will be draft BAP this time. I highly doubt they have a defensive oriented draft nor anoffensive oriented draft.

Kiffen is a good coach but he relies on veterans as well. If he did not have the veterans he currently has the defense would struggle as well with young players.

I agree. Going into last years draft, our greatest weakness was the OL, hence DJ and JT. But going into this draft we will still have holes all over the team regardless of who we sign in FA, so our mindset will very much be BPA.

\"We are frustrated at not making the playoffs. It is a good start. That is all it is. It is a good start for something that we are going to be in the future.” - Josh Freeman

RedAlert

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« #10 : February 08, 2007, 12:43:25 PM »

The Bucs will be draft BAP this time. I highly doubt they have a defensive oriented draft nor anoffensive oriented draft.

Kiffen is a good coach but he relies on veterans as well. If he did not have the veterans he currently has the defense would struggle as well with young players.

I agree. Going into last years draft, our greatest weakness was the OL, hence DJ and JT. But going into this draft we will still have holes all over the team regardless of who we sign in FA, so our mindset will very much be BPA.

I have to play Devil's Advocate and say that the pattern the last 2 years should continue. 2 years ago RB was a huge need, as was LB (before Quarles' renaissance) and TE. Hello Caddy, Ruud and Smith. Last year was exactly as Patrick stated.

Fix the biggest cracks in the foundation for the most stable structure.





bucsbum

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« #11 : February 08, 2007, 01:00:20 PM »

Foundation of a football team is the DL and OL in that order. you want a stable structure start from the ground up. Build your offence around its line. Build a defence around its line

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« #12 : February 08, 2007, 01:06:10 PM »

The Bucs will be draft BAP this time. I highly doubt they have a defensive oriented draft nor anoffensive oriented draft.

Kiffen is a good coach but he relies on veterans as well. If he did not have the veterans he currently has the defense would struggle as well with young players.

I agree. Going into last years draft, our greatest weakness was the OL, hence DJ and JT. But going into this draft we will still have holes all over the team regardless of who we sign in FA, so our mindset will very much be BPA.

I have to play Devil's Advocate and say that the pattern the last 2 years should continue. 2 years ago RB was a huge need, as was LB (before Quarles' renaissance) and TE. Hello Caddy, Ruud and Smith. Last year was exactly as Patrick stated.

Fix the biggest cracks in the foundation for the most stable structure.


Our two biggest needs last year were UT and LOT.  Neither were addressed.  Strangely enough, our two biggest needs this year are UT and LOT.


RedAlert

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« #13 : February 08, 2007, 01:14:57 PM »

Our two biggest needs last year were UT and LOT. Neither were addressed. Strangely enough, our two biggest needs this year are UT and LOT.

I was of the opinion that OL was the need as a whole after 2005, save Buenning. The defensive line didnt appear, to me, to be a liability at that point...

But I'm definitely on board with you re: UT and LOT this year..



 

bucsbum

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« #14 : February 08, 2007, 01:20:13 PM »

Buenning tore his ACL at the end of the year. I think we need to count him out next year. Boston college has a great guard that might be there at the middle of the second round for us. if we can trade our 3-4 pick for a 7-8 pick in the first and a 41 or 42 in the second round that is how I would go
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