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Boid Fink

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#15 : February 08, 2007, 01:33:21 PM

(sigh)

Look, how does this relate at all to Trent Green man? I just explained why he would fail miserably in this version of the offense with OUR defense in place. How would BRad JOhnson back then do in this version of the Bucs offense? Yeah, I thought so.
Green is a good QB. He usually makes good decisions, and I think he'd fit ok in this O. I don't think he'd fail.
I think Peyton Manning would fail in this offense.  The way it is built right now is max protect to cover the shortcomings of the O-line, thus the TEs get minimal routes.  The wideouts are shaky, and Galloway is the top guy on the team and he doesn't run the best middle routes.  Clayton drops everything, and can't get open (seperation, whatever).  Carnell has issues with his hands, and more importantly, now has to reprove his legs.

Green would not be a savior at all.

Joe Thomas would help, Calvin Johnsonwould help...


Boid Fink

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#16 : February 08, 2007, 01:34:17 PM

(sigh)

Look, how does this relate at all to Trent Green man? I just explained why he would fail miserably in this version of the offense with OUR defense in place. How would BRad JOhnson back then do in this version of the Bucs offense? Yeah, I thought so.

That's an easy question Boid. Brad would play like he did in the beginning of '04, and for all of those who can't remember he flat out stunk.
It is easy, isn't it?




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#17 : February 08, 2007, 01:35:08 PM

The only thing I said about Brad was that a lack of mobility didn't hold him back.

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#18 : February 08, 2007, 01:37:28 PM

Trent Green dosen't fit in the 2008 and beyond plan that Bruce and John are talking about using this off season

Boid Fink

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#19 : February 08, 2007, 01:38:00 PM

The only thing I said about Brad was that a lack of mobility didn't hold him back.
Talking about a different team bro.

Not fair to compare situations like that.

The way this offense is designed right now, Gruden has placed an emphasis on mobility from the QB.  That is his version of the WCO HE likes to run with.  Gannon wasn't fast, but he would take off, he could roll out...Gruden wants to get back to that plan.  Not the BJ plan, trust that.

And all I said about Brad Johnson is that he gets too much credit for that team in this argument.  It was defense setting up the offense.  Not the other way around.




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#20 : February 08, 2007, 01:40:13 PM

Just say NO!!!

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#21 : February 08, 2007, 01:40:23 PM

Mobility is always linked to Gru Coast Offense. And Trent is not mobile.

I'd pass.

Trent had a nice offense to work around in KC...he wouldn't have that luxury in Tampa.

You guys have to understand that unless a QB has a a few legit threats, ie a nice TE, a RB that can pop for a 100 regularly, a set of wideouts that can make plays, an O-line that doesn't crumble so quickly, less max protect schemes, it does no QB ANY good to be in this offense. The team has to upgrade the trenches, the skill positions first, IMO.

Green would have a RB who got through with a bad year, one legit wideout, and no TE to throw to on the regular, that is all I am saying. Throw in the lack of a decent O-line, and it just makes it worse...

I agree but that one legit WR is one more than KC has.
Maybe, but he has a TE that is good, and a RB that is MVP material. And an O-line that can push a battle ship out of port. Given time, any wideout is going to make a few plays...I mean Green wasn't having 250-300 yard games on just Gonzo now...

I agree with you the Chiefs have more weapons on offense.  I was just making a stab at the fact they don't really have a #1 WR or that go to guy.  I don't think they've really had that since Rison's first year there in 97.  Gonzo was a big part of those 250-300 yard games for both QBs as he caught the most balls and most yardage.  Not often a TE has those kinds of stats over your WRs.
:Receiving Rec Yds Lg TD
T. Gonzalez 73 900 57 5
E. Kennison 53 860 51 5
 

 


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#22 : February 08, 2007, 01:58:42 PM

If we want a caddy QB then Green > all the other chumps everyone wants. Carr? LOL Plummer, ack. Good decision maker, good accuracy and a fast release. Can't argue with that. He's Brad Johnson II and despite efforts to find the mobile agile guy Boid seems to think we need no one was come close to running this offense as well as Brad and 22 TD's, 6 INT and a 92.9 QBR sin't a product of the defense.

Now, he's not a long term answer so Green says Simms isn't the future so you still have to get the future.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

Boid Fink

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#23 : February 08, 2007, 02:08:46 PM

If we want a caddy QB then Green > all the other chumps everyone wants. Carr? LOL Plummer, ack. Good decision maker, good accuracy and a fast release. Can't argue with that. He's Brad Johnson II and despite efforts to find the mobile agile guy Boid seems to think we need no one was come close to running this offense as well as Brad and 22 TD's, 6 INT and a 92.9 QBR sin't a product of the defense.

Now, he's not a long term answer so Green says Simms isn't the future so you still have to get the future.
NO Dal, you got it wrong.  Brad ran THAT version of the Bucs well.  But we are talking about this version of the Bucs.  Would BRad handle the offense well, even say if he were Brad Johnson circa 2002?  C'mon now.  He would get crushed, fast release or not.  Clayton isn't getting open that fast, and Joey G is not built like K-Mac or Key-J for that matter.  And Caddy didn't light it up last year, and the Bucs ran max protect out the wazoo...Johnson was throwing to JJ, K-Mac, and JOhnson.  Had some run production.  Worked with shorter fields.  See the point?

It is no secret Gruden likes Mobile QBs, he ha built his best work around a mobile guy.  I think he sits around scheming of ways to land one.  He has on more than one occasion told Simms to run...

Green?  No, not a long term answer, but if that is the case, why not just go after Garcia?  I mean the man is more familiar with the WCO, and would want just as much as Green, a proven vet, is going to want.  And personally, I would rather see Garcia run this offense before Green.  We already have a pocket passer with more size in Simms.  Not saying Green isn;t a good QB, just saying not for THIS team.


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#24 : February 08, 2007, 02:21:01 PM

If we want a caddy QB then Green > all the other chumps everyone wants. Carr? LOL Plummer, ack. Good decision maker, good accuracy and a fast release. Can't argue with that. He's Brad Johnson II and despite efforts to find the mobile agile guy Boid seems to think we need no one was come close to running this offense as well as Brad and 22 TD's, 6 INT and a 92.9 QBR sin't a product of the defense.

Now, he's not a long term answer so Green says Simms isn't the future so you still have to get the future.
NO Dal, you got it wrong.  Brad ran THAT version of the Bucs well.  But we are talking about this version of the Bucs.  Would BRad handle the offense well, even say if he were Brad Johnson circa 2002?  C'mon now.  He would get crushed, fast release or not.  Clayton isn't getting open that fast, and Joey G is not built like K-Mac or Key-J for that matter.  And Caddy didn't light it up last year, and the Bucs ran max protect out the wazoo...Johnson was throwing to JJ, K-Mac, and JOhnson. Had some run production. Worked with shorter fields. See the point?

It is no secret Gruden likes Mobile QBs, he ha built his best work around a mobile guy.  I think he sits around scheming of ways to land one.  He has on more than one occasion told Simms to run...

Green?  No, not a long term answer, but if that is the case, why not just go after Garcia?  I mean the man is more familiar with the WCO, and would want just as much as Green, a proven vet, is going to want.  And personally, I would rather see Garcia run this offense before Green.  We already have a pocket passer with more size in Simms.  Not saying Green isn;t a good QB, just saying not for THIS team.

Good points. I just think Gruden needs to survive this comming season. Delveloping a QB is not a priority for Gruden (I wouldn't think). He needs a smart experience QB to get him through 2007 season. Long term? maybe not but I think Green might be the best option. I'm on the fence with Carr. Maybe drafting B.Quinn and signing Green wouild be his best option.

Gas $4 a gallon, Thank you all who voted for the Socialist.

dalbuc

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#25 : February 08, 2007, 02:23:15 PM

NO Dal, you got it wrong.  Brad ran THAT version of the Bucs well.  But we are talking about this version of the Bucs.  Would BRad handle the offense well, even say if he were Brad Johnson circa 2002?  C'mon now.  He would get crushed, fast release or not.  Clayton isn't getting open that fast, and Joey G is not built like K-Mac or Key-J for that matter.  And Caddy didn't light it up last year, and the Bucs ran max protect out the wazoo...Johnson was throwing to JJ, K-Mac, and JOhnson.  Had some run production.  Worked with shorter fields.  See the point?

The OL sucked that year too, Brad got drilled all the time but his release covered up about 4x the actual number of sacks he registered. Yeah, the WR's aren't as good but Green also throws a better deep ball than Brad did so he might be a better fit with Galloway. It is clearly not a perfect fit but in a world of less than ideal fits he's a better option than a lot of other guys people are in love with.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#26 : February 08, 2007, 02:28:36 PM

I would rather have Garcia than Green, to be honest.  Relating to who people are in love with lately, I just see mostly love for Garcia.  I can see why, but long term is the key in all of this.  If we are saying we want immediate production, GArcia is greater than Green, for this offense that is in place right now.  He has quick feet, can throw onthe run, and is familiar with the system.

Green is a slinger who relies on TEs, and running backs too much, IMO.  He does not have half of that luxury, and as of right now, neither of them in Tampa.  In KC he had a good O-line that helped validate him.  Green is not a good fit on this team, IMO.  He IS the better of the mentioned, but it is about the offense he would be working with...Garcia > Green > Plummer >= Carr.  On this team, anyway.

Edit:  As far as 2002 O-line, well, it may have sucked, but it is better than this O-line we watch now.  No doubt about that.


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#27 : February 08, 2007, 04:02:20 PM

I didn't realize Trent Green will also be 37 next year. Since he will be, I have to say I would only want him for a minimum contract, and I'm sure from his perspective for a minimum contract he may as well stay in KC.

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#28 : February 08, 2007, 04:56:04 PM

If Green wants to bring with him his history of getting injuried only to watch his no name backup come in and help lead the team to the playoffs, then I'm all for it.  Come on Green, go for the trifecta.

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#29 : February 08, 2007, 05:27:37 PM

A perfect fit for the Bucs? The missing link? Not taking into account Free Agency or the Draft (Calvin Johnson?) I see a QB like Trent Green taking the Bucs Offense to a higher level. He would make all skilled players on offense much better , could you imagine what he could do with or for Alex Smith? I know most would disagree but I see a Trent Green turning this franchise around. Does anyone agree? I for one would like to see Green here over the other possible canidates. Thoughs? Thanks.
Ok, ok...what's the punch line???
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